Scioscia on protesting during the anthem

[jordan]

8 minutes ago, TheHeathen said:

The next step is for the thin blue line to become a stigma instead of a badge of honor. Acknowledgment and accountability.

This world is full of bad people.  Some work as police officers, some work as professional athletes, some work as politicians, some work as school teachers, some work as bankers, some work at the 7/11, and so on and so on.  Yes police officers carry the power of the badge, but it doesn't change that bad people still make it through.  That's the way the world is.  But to stigmatize the thin blue line does nothing to improve things. 

[red321]

16 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Whatever happened to just playing a football game and entertaining the fans?

Why does every Sunday have to be full of political statements and controversy?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-pentagon-paid-lucrative-sports-franchises-millions-to-honor-troops/2015/11/04/4d39c50c-8324-11e5-9afb-0c971f713d0c_story.html?utm_term=.7a83c5ea8d1e&tid=a_inl

 

hmmm...good question...

[Mark68]

1 minute ago, red321 said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-pentagon-paid-lucrative-sports-franchises-millions-to-honor-troops/2015/11/04/4d39c50c-8324-11e5-9afb-0c971f713d0c_story.html?utm_term=.7a83c5ea8d1e&tid=a_inl

 

hmmm...good question...

And this is where the standing on the sidelines during the Anthem "tradition" began.

[TheHeathen]

1 minute ago, jordan111280 said:

This world is full of bad people.  Some work as police officers, some work as professional athletes, some work as politicians, some work as school teachers, some work as bankers, some work at the 7/11, and so on and so on.  Yes police officers carry the power of the badge, but it doesn't change that bad people still make it through.  That's the way the world is.  But to stigmatize the think blue line does nothing to improve things. 

The thin blue line represents the blue wall of corruption. It represents solidarity between police officers to not turn each other in for their abuses. 

 

It's funny when people use the "one bad apple" analogy in an instance of abuse of power by a police officer, because they never use the whole saying. One bad apple spoils the whole bunch.

[HaloNArizona]

5 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

Whether they mean it or not, it's disrespectful to everyone who wore a uniform and fought for them.

I'm not saying protesting or making a statement is wrong. I'm saying that doing this during the national anthem is wrong place-wrong time. 

What do you say about those that served who have come out and stated that they served so people can express themselves freely?

[jordan]

12 minutes ago, TheHeathen said:

The thin blue line represents the blue wall of corruption. It represents solidarity between police officers to not turn each other in for their abuses. 

 

It's funny when people use the "one bad apple" analogy in an instance of abuse of power by a police officer, because they never use the whole saying. One bad apple spoils the whole bunch.

So what do you say about a teacher who abuses their power to molest a child? Does this spoil all teachers?

[red321]

4 minutes ago, jordan111280 said:

So what do you say about a teacher who abuses their power to molest a child? Does this spoil all teachers?

If the other teachers know about it and don't say anything....yes

[TheHeathen]

19 minutes ago, jordan111280 said:

So what do you say about a teacher who abuses their power to molest a child? Does this spoil all teachers?

That's quite a reach you have there.

[TheHeathen]

16 minutes ago, red321 said:

If the other teachers know about it and don't say anything....yes

I'll take this further...

The other teachers know about it, cover it up, brag about it, do it themselves, and a sizable portion of the citizenry deny that it's abuse and then slap stickers on their car representing the abuse.

[Kevin]

27 minutes ago, red321 said:

If the other teachers know about it and don't say anything....yes

Penn state is the perfect example of this and they were hit pretty hard for it which they should have been. 

Police culture occasionally gets a dent but for the most part usually walks away mostly unscathed. 

[Mark68]

I certainly don't think that most members of the law enforcement community are bad people. Most are trying to help their respective communities, and are willing to do so for little pay and little appreciation.

However, some do it because they believe it gives them a license to kill (black) people. Those are the ones that somehow need to be weeded out, for the betterment of their profession at large.

[TheHeathen]

2 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

I certainly don't think that most members of the law enforcement community are bad people. Most are trying to help their respective communities, and are willing to do so for little pay and little appreciation.

However, some do it because they believe it gives them a license to kill (black) people. Those are the ones that somehow need to be weeded out, for the betterment of their profession at large.

I agree that the vast majority are entering the force with good intentions. But the pervading culture completely negates those intentions. Even if all that happens is they turn a blind eye to abuse, they become implicit and they violate the oath that they take to uphold law and order.

[Adam]

17 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

I certainly don't think that most members of the law enforcement community are bad people. Most are trying to help their respective communities, and are willing to do so for little pay and little appreciation.

However, some do it because they believe it gives them a license to kill (black) people. Those are the ones that somehow need to be weeded out, for the betterment of their profession at large.

little pay? In CA they rake it in

[Mark68]

1 minute ago, Adam said:

little pay? In CA they rake it in

Do still they "rake it in" when the cost of living factor is applied?

[Adam]

Yes

[TheHeathen]

Here in Riverside they make about $300,000 a year, with everything figured in. I'm sure their take home is somewhere around $100,000.

[ten ocho recon scout]

45 minutes ago, TheHeathen said:

The thin blue line represents the blue wall of corruption. It represents solidarity between police officers to not turn each other in for their abuses. 

 

It's funny when people use the "one bad apple" analogy in an instance of abuse of power by a police officer, because they never use the whole saying. One bad apple spoils the whole bunch.

Ok, ill bite.

I avoid these topics on here as much as possible. Ive mentioned on here having MLB connections. If i ever said who and to what extent, no one would believe me (except chuck). One thing i have in common with these guys is that both what i do and what they do is routinely second guessed by the public...which by and large habe no idea what actually happens behind the scenes, nor do they habe any actual background in what we do. As such, as much as i like reading the smart things guys like @dochalo, @ettin etc say, i dont discuss that with them. Why? Its simple. As well addressed and intelligent as their posts are, they (no offense to doc, ettin and the rest, who i think are brilliant at analyzing baseball), they still are merely observers, with no background other than an amateurs opinion. Its why i wouldnt tell doc anything about medicine, or a woman how to handle her pregnancy.

So discussing my profession with anyone who doesnt have a rudimentary knowledge of what i do is best left alone, because it would take too long to explain week one of a 4th amendment class and the subsequent case law to every question. Much as when im having beers with someone we talk about on here, i dont tell him how he should approach his at bats.

 

 

The funny thing about this bullshit narrative of cops not wanting to turn in other cops is simple. You know who burns cops? Other cops. How did the whole rampart scandal unravel? Heres a hint, it didnt start with perez...the actual reality, contrary to popular myth, is that i dont want to lose my job or go to federal court...and my partners arent going to lead me there (and vice versa). So the idea we (as the majority) look the other way for some idiot, with the tradeoff being i lose my job, but hey...hes a brother. Bullshit.

Lumping all cops together is as retarded as lumping any other group. How much interaction do you believe different police agencies have with each other? Do you think there is some vast conspiracy where we all congregate and share our shady little deeds? Most cops, regardless of the movies, dont even hang out together after work...you think im gonna lose my job for people i dont even drink with?..

You mentioned in another post about accountability. Agreed. Next lets let BLM take some. Its 2017, almost 18, and were still saying the mike brown shooting was bad...fucking kidding me?

This problem will not be fixed until some things change. First and foremost, and as of yet ive never heard this discussed, the general population needs to become educated on what the law actually says about search and seizure, and use of force. The most overused term out there is "i know my rights". No, most people dont. 

 

[Adam]

3 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Ok, ill bite.

I avoid these topics on here as much as possible. Ive mentioned on here having MLB connections. If i ever said who and to what extent, no one would believe me (except chuck). One thing i have in common with these guys is that both what i do and what they do is routinely second guessed by the public...which by and large habe no idea what actually happens behind the scenes, nor do they habe any actual background in what we do. As such, as much as i like reading the smart things guys like @dochalo, @ettin etc say, i dont discuss that with them. Why? Its simple. As well addressed and intelligent as their posts are, they (no offense to doc, ettin and the rest, who i think are brilliant at analyzing baseball), they still are merely observers, with no background other than an amateurs opinion. Its why i wouldnt tell doc anything about medicine, or a woman how to handle her pregnancy.

So discussing my profession with anyone who doesnt have a rudimentary knowledge of what i do is best left alone, because it would take too long to explain week one of a 4th amendment class and the subsequent case law to every question. Much as when im having beers with someone we talk about on here, i dont tell him how he should approach his at bats.

 

 

The funny thing about this bullshit narrative of cops not wanting to turn in other cops is simple. You know who burns cops? Other cops. How did the whole rampart scandal unravel? Heres a hint, it didnt start with perez...the actual reality, contrary to popular myth, is that i dont want to lose my job or go to federal court...and my partners arent going to lead me there (and vice versa). So the idea we (as the majority) look the other way for some idiot, with the tradeoff being i lose my job, but hey...hes a brother. Bullshit.

Lumping all cops together is as retarded as lumping any other group. How much interaction do you believe different police agencies have with each other? Do you think there is some vast conspiracy where we all congregate and share our shady little deeds? Most cops, regardless of the movies, dont even hang out together after work...you think im gonna lose my job for people i dont even drink with?..

You mentioned in another post about accountability. Agreed. Next lets let BLM take some. Its 2017, almost 18, and were still saying the mike brown shooting was bad...fucking kidding me?

This problem will not be fixed until some things change. First and foremost, and as of yet ive never heard this discussed, the general population needs to become educated on what the law actually says about search and seizure, and use of force. The most overused term out there is "i know my rights". No, most people dont. 

 

Thanks for sharing dude

[ten ocho recon scout]

12 minutes ago, TheHeathen said:

Here in Riverside they make about $300,000 a year, with everything figured in. I'm sure their take home is somewhere around $100,000.

Not even close

Take home after taxes and PERS is about 40 a year entry level, 50 once you top out (for orange county, ehich pays vastly more than riverside county). Not bad at all. But factor in a mortgage in OC, and no one is exactly getting rich.

Overtime is great, if its there. Its not something thats just created so i can buy a boat. Overtime is usually an hour here or there for a late call, court, training, etc.

Police administrators make far too much (like any other administrator). But they make up roughly 5 percent of any agency. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, TheHeathen said:

I'll take this further...

The other teachers know about it, cover it up, brag about it, do it themselves, and a sizable portion of the citizenry deny that it's abuse and then slap stickers on their car representing the abuse.

Your position seems to be that just about all police officers are bad people. That is a non-starter in terms of having a reasonable discussion on the issue.

[Angels#1Fan]

7 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Lastly, STOP politicizing sports.

If you're worried about politicizing sports then maybe you shouldn't have started this thread..just saying.

It (this thread) is going to end badly.

My $0.02. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

43 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

 

However, some do it because they believe it gives them a license to kill (black) people. Those are the ones that somehow need to be weeded out, for the betterment of their profession at large.

I cant speak for the midwest, the south, etc. I hate to label people, but i know racism there is still far more prevelant. Not just the govt, but the culture. But of course ill never cross paths with law enforcement there. Its why i hate being lumped in with what goes on there. 

A few years back, i went out for beers with a friend who sells medical insurance. It was some office party (his work) and i knew there would be hot office chicks. Anyway, my friend tells his people im a cop (which i always tell people not to do), and i get stuck having this same conversation with a pretty well off mexican guy, about cops being racist against blacks.

I try everything i can to change the conversation, because when im trying to meet chicks, i care as much to talk about my job as this guy would insurance. (Again, one of the rules when i hang with baseball people is not talking baseball).

So finally this black guy who was with their group chimes in. He was born in raised in santa ana (so he and i had more in common than i did with this well off mexican guy). And the black guy hits the nail on the head.

He said growing up, the only time he ever got messed with by cops was when he hung with certain friends, who were assholes. He said other than that, he never even got noticed by the cops, and added (this was the home run) "they dont give a fuck about you unless youre a gangster".

And thats exactly it. Theres way in the hell too many turds out there im going to talk to at work, of any color, rather than notice any other person, of any color, who doesnt look like a turd. 

Again, i cant speak for the backwoods part of the country. Ive seen the racist bullshit "over there" with my own eyes. And it was from regular people, so im sure it extends to the cops (and teachers, everyone else). But at lesst out here, its not at all some systematic issue.

 

[Chuck]

34 minutes ago, Angels#1Fan said:

If you're worried about politicizing sports then maybe you shouldn't have started this thread..just saying.

It (this thread) is going to end badly.

My $0.02. 

No it's not, it's an adult discussion and so far it has been very civil. 

Oh posting a thread on a message board isn't politicizing professional sports. It's a topic for an online discussion, not a large platform like the NFL. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

5 hours ago, m0nkey said:

Is it worth having a media circus around just to improve your back up quarterback?

That is the exact reason that some teams privately used for not bringing in Tim Tebow, including his hometown Jacksonville Jaguars, who desperately needed a quarterback.

Of course, it didn't help when Bill Belichick cut him. People around the league believed that if anyone had a chance of turning him around, it was Bill.

[Angels#1Fan]

27 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

No it's not, it's an adult discussion and so far it has been very civil. 

Oh posting a thread on a message board isn't politicizing professional sports. It's a topic for an online discussion, not a large platform like the NFL. 

Sorry Chuck, but I disagree.

Starting this thread and stating your opinion on whether or not you think the Anthem or the flag has been disrespected is indeed politicizing sports.

Why not put this thread in the political section? That's where it belongs.