John McCain has Brain Cancer

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, krAbs said:

 

See:

My point is less about McCain, and more about [Generic politician x], so to avoid confusion, I will refer to him/her as such. Now, the rest of floplag's comment:

So again, I feel like we are downplaying political ideology as automatically excusing action. So, say based on policy and rhetoric, I am nervous that [Generic politician x] is going to cause me deep personally misfortune, even possibly to the point of death, or bankrupting my family. Maybe this is because of a political ideology that ends badly for me, or worse, maybe its because of some deeper, more prejudice reason. Other than the fact that it may not be politically expedient to do so, why should I let this person hide behind the screen of "Its just politics, bro. chill"? This sounds like a viewpoint that only holds water when you're NOT the one who is personally fearing for your life and safety. Or, as they would say on the left, its an argument that comes from having privilege of not being in the crosshairs.

I'm not downplaying anything and certainly not excusing it, but, you do have a point in general.   
What i do not get is the resulting hatred.  Disagreement, working against that person, trying to prevent their election or changing policy... hey thats how the system works.  But in recent years its literally become seething violent hatred of anyone that disagrees with our views.  That i cannot abide or support.  Its oppressive, violent, and wrong. 

[mtangelsfan]

16 minutes ago, Thomas said:

I'm a Libertarian in New Mexico. I'll give you three guesses who I voted for.

Barney Fife?

[Thomas]

17 minutes ago, floplag said:

Shrewd businessman, maybe.. maybe not considering the bankruptcies.. but i doubt anyone could be neanderthal and amass the furtune he has, but, hes been the same idiot on a personal level as long as i can remember. 

The bankruptcies were him at the height of his skills. Ask Mitt Romney and Bain Capital about how much money can be made on the business model. He made a killing running some of his businesses into the ground. And knew how to walk away leaving others to pay for them. The man can con his way into anything. 

[mtangelsfan]

I am always surprised at how many people see bankruptcy as a failure.  It may be a failure of ethics, but avoiding paying your bills is a win if you eliminate ethics, which Trump never had.

[floplag]

Just now, Thomas said:

The bankruptcies were him at the height of his skills. Ask Mitt Romney and Bain Capital about how much money can be made on the business model. He made a killing running some of his businesses into the ground. And knew how to walk away leaving others to pay for them. The man can con his way into anything. 

You give this man FAR too much credit in my opinion.  He would have to be a savant of epic proportions to be who you think he is.  I'm sorry i dont buy it at all.

[Blarg]

17 minutes ago, Thomas said:

I'm a Libertarian in New Mexico. I'll give you three guesses who I voted for.

Aleppo? 

[floplag]

Just now, mtangelsfan said:

I am always surprised at how many people see bankruptcy as a failure.  It may be a failure of ethics, but avoiding paying your bills is a win if you eliminate ethics, which Trump never had.

Very true, but from a PR standpoint or public perception, thats a whole nother ballgame for a man like him

[Blarg]

18 minutes ago, floplag said:

Same guy i did, imagine that. 

Deez Nutz? 

[floplag]

3 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Deez Nutz? 

i seriously considered writing that it.. no BS.. when friends asked i told them thats what i was going to do.  In the end i cast a vote FOR someone rather than against someone

[Thomas]

5 minutes ago, floplag said:

You give this man FAR too much credit in my opinion.  He would have to be a savant of epic proportions to be who you think he is.  I'm sorry i dont buy it at all.

Yeah silly me.
Global business empire.
Best selling author.
Major TV personality. 
Unrivaled in brand generation.
President of the United States of America.

Yep. the results completely support your assertion. 

[Blarg]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

i seriously considered writing that it.. no BS.. when friends asked i told them thats what i was going to do.  In the end i canst a vote FOR someone rather than against someone

You would have helped Trump win. 

[floplag]

Just now, Thomas said:

Yeah silly me.
Global business empire.
Best selling author.
Major TV personality. 
Unrivaled in brand generation.
President of the United States of America.

Yep. the results completely support your assertion. 

Yeah and all those scream criminal mastermind hustler i guess... lol  

[Blarg]

Billions of dollars says, yes. 

[Thomas]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

Yeah and all those scream criminal mastermind hustler i guess... lol  

Well considering that is basically Lex Luthor's character in a nutshell...yeah actually.

[krAbs]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

I'm not downplaying anything and certainly not excusing it, but, you do have a point in general.   
What i do not get is the resulting hatred.  Disagreement, working against that person, trying to prevent their election or changing policy... hey thats how the system works.  But in recent years its literally become seething violent hatred of anyone that disagrees with our views.  That i cannot abide or support.  Its oppressive, violent, and wrong. 

Right, and I think I agree with that. It is super hard to be constructive when it becomes a hate fest. But again, real politics ARE personal. If the argument is about like...in what way do we write a tax law, then sure, I'm with you 100%. But if its like...[random politician x] wants to exterminate Native Americans, and I am a Native American, then maybe its pretty rational to hate someone who is supporting [random politician x], or at least to hate the actual [random politician x].

So that leads us right back into the argument from before. I am using an extreme case. I totally confess that. But, where exactly is the line here? cuz i have trouble seeing exactly where it is. this election has been hard for me because in my view, trump lands preeety close to wherever that line is. Its less about someone's abstract views on abstract policy issues, and how one moves through politics. its more about looking around and seeing friends of yours afraid because the POTUS appears interested in targeting them.

[floplag]

7 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Well considering that is basically Lex Luthor's character in a nutshell...yeah actually.

So Oprah Winfrey and every other person in similar resume is in your mind a criminal hustler or is it just Trump? 

[Thomas]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

So Oprah Winfrey and every other person in similar resume is in your mind a criminal hustler or is it just Trump? 

Oprah definitely is a hustler. She knew how to get the money. I'm sure her public and private personas are quite different. Not that she (afiak) broke any laws. But the skill set is the same. Jay Z would be a good example. He literally went from crack dealer to business mogul. It's all about spending other people's money.

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, krAbs said:

Right, and I think I agree with that. It is super hard to be constructive when it becomes a hate fest. But again, real politics ARE personal. If the argument is about like...in what way do we write a tax law, then sure, I'm with you 100%. But if its like...[random politician x] wants to exterminate Native Americans, and I am a Native American, then maybe its pretty rational to hate someone who is supporting [random politician x], or at least to hate the actual [random politician x].

So that leads us right back into the argument from before. I am using an extreme case. I totally confess that. But, where exactly is the line here? cuz i have trouble seeing exactly where it is. this election has been hard for me because in my view, trump lands preeety close to wherever that line is. Its less about someone's abstract views on abstract policy issues, and how one moves through politics. its more about looking around and seeing friends of yours afraid because the POTUS appears interested in targeting them.

Thats not politics though, thats genocide.   Its hard for me to equate that to anything political.

Frankly i miss the days when politics was about the economy, the budget, military spending and all that stuff that affected us all over the selective agenda BS we see today.  

The man in the office may not deserve respect, but the office does in my view.  If i dont like what he does i try to stop it legally, not threaten to cut his head off or bomb his house and family.   It doesnt justify becoming that which you claim to oppose.  i just dont see that logic 

Bottom line to me hating Trump because he supposedly hates is the socio-political equivalent of fucking to promote abstinence.

[floplag]

2 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Oprah definitely is a hustler. She knew how to get the money. I'm sure her public and private personas are quite different. Not that she (afiak) broke any laws. But the skill set is the same. Jay Z would be a good example. He literally went from crack dealer to business mogul. It's all about spending other people's money.

The man couldn't sell the Obamacare repeal to his own party with a majority and a mandate, how good a hustler can he really be?  

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, floplag said:

The man couldn't sell the Obamacare repeal to his own party with a majority and a mandate, how good a hustler can he really be?  

You think he gave a rat's ass about Obamacare? This bill does nothing for Trump personally. He cares about it as much as the wall they're never going to build and keeping Muslims out of the country. More importantly the Republicans wanted nothing to do with repealing Obamacare. They wanted to give the appearance of it. But actually repealing it would have been tying their own rope for their hanging. They want healthcare to have Obama's name on it when it inevitably goes down in flames.

[Thomas]

Hence Trump coming out and emphasizing that the Democrats own Obamacare. That's the end game. Not repealing an already very profitable scheme for the insurance companies. It's about making the big donors money and getting reelected. Something repealing Obamacare does neither of long term.

[floplag]

Just now, Thomas said:

You think he gave a rat's ass about Obamacare? This bill does nothing for Trump personally. He cares about it as much as the wall they're never going to build and keeping Muslims out of the country. More importantly the Republicans wanted nothing to do with repealing Obamacare. They wanted to give the appearance of it. But actually repealing it would have been tying their own rope for their hanging. They want healthcare to have Obama's name on it when it inevitably goes down in flames.

AS i said before, public perception and relations matter, he and the entire Rep party got egg on their face in the court of public opinion.  To men like that, it matters, their ego is too big for it not too, and a grifter as good as the one you think he is lives and dies on that rep.  
You can disregard that amidst the tinfoil if you like, but this made the entire Rep party look like a monkey fucking a football.   He may not care, but you bet your ass the others do.  
You have a narrow view on the matter that Trump is a mastermind, my view could not be further from that.  We can agree to disagree as there is nothing you can say to make me think that man is some amazing intellectual in the face of so much evidence to the contrary.    

[floplag]

5 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Hence Trump coming out and emphasizing that the Democrats own Obamacare. That's the end game. Not repealing an already very profitable scheme for the insurance companies. It's about making the big donors money and getting reelected. Something repealing Obamacare does neither of long term.

No thats called saving face, or trying to.  Nothing more.

[Thomas]

3 minutes ago, floplag said:

No thats called saving face, nothing more.

You know I called it before the election even happened, right? The Republican motivations are clear as day.  It's not really that hard to see. But since you have literally nothing to argue with I understand your desire to give up. I understand. It's hardly the first time for me to have that happen to someone I'm debating. 

[floplag]

Just now, Thomas said:

You know I called it before the election even happened, right? The Republican motivations are clear as day.  It's not really that hard to see. But since have literally nothing to argue with I understand your desire to give up. I understand. It's hardly the first time for me to have that happen to someone I'm debating. 

Debate requires an open mind, yours is not.  The self pat on the back was a cute touch, but it generally indicates insecurity... if you were that right, people would tell you, you wouldnt have to tell them.   
This post reminds me of the Dems assuming victory the night before the election, they are you are equally full of themselves and shit, as are you.