John McCain has Brain Cancer

[floplag]

1 hour ago, krAbs said:

Maybe, but he is a man with authoritarian instincts who hates certain segments of the population. I guess my question here is by your moral code, at what point is it okay to abandon civility and say "what is politics to you is threatening my safety, and I am not going to be calm and respectful about this because a persons policy comes from that person." Extremes are useful in thought experiments because they help point out flaws in reasoning. So, to take it further, what make mccain different than trump? is it the fact that he tries to kill people in war, rather than his own citizens? at what point are people allowed to feel differently on that?

That my friend is your view, not a fact, there are many that see him completely differently.  As for me i see him as an idiot over his head, but i dont hate him for that.  I think most of the logic people use to hate him is completely ludicrous to be honest, its just self justification.  
Flaws in reasoning are also directly dependent on your beliefs and are rarely these days based on actual fact but interpretation of facts, which are skewed by personal belief.  
Your bias is shown with the "he tries to kill people..." nonsense... no, he doesnt.  your just spouting the party lines to find evil in a  man you dont know and dont have afriggin clue why he does the things he does.   you assume, you claim righteousness, you have no right to do so.
As for me im wholly in the middle, independent voter and proud to have not voted for either Trump or Clinton.  I see both parties for the liars they are with the only real difference being who they pander to. 
Either way, even if you were right, wishing death on a man you do not know, for no reason other than political ideology, makes you equally as egregious in my book. 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

Trump has used the left's hatred,  manipulated and breeded it,  for his own ends. Pointing at left's hatred,  that he created,  as a way to discredit them.  How many of Trump's defeated opponents lament getting dragged into spending campaign time focusing on him? You may argue that the hatred is justified and you may be right.  But it is ultimately self defeating. 

Trump did not create that hatred, thats bull.  The media nad the agenda driven folks did that and the left extreme ate it up like their lives depended on it.
He may be using it but thats no different than what the Dems did under Obama so... you dont get to blame him for that.  Thats reflection. 
Hes an idiot, no question, but all this hitler, treason, anti-christ, russion spy stuff is quite laughable if you can see past the partisan nonsense. 

[floplag]

1 hour ago, krAbs said:

Again, I don't like McCain, but I also think its horrifying to wish death on him, because decisions in politics are hard. BUT, I also think its bullshit to say that politics are just politics and you shouldn't take them personally or have that kind of reaction to them. This stuff is often important, and it can literally be life or death for people. Its hard to say that about modern politics, but painfully obvious to say it about historic politics.

of course they matter, but does that justify hate?  If so you just legitimized every asinine thing ever said against Obama by that logic.  

I get the anger and frustration, trust me i do... its putting my sister in a very difficult place that makes me equally angry.  But i cant dive into that level of hypocrisy, i just cant. 

One standard, one measuring stick for both parties representatives.. apply it equally and the truth becomes obvious.  

[Thomas]

Just now, floplag said:

Trump did not create that hatred, thats bull.  The media nad the agenda driven folks did that and the left extreme ate it up like their lives depended on it.
He may be using it but thats no different than what the Dems did under Obama so... you dont get to blame him for that.  Thats reflection. 
Hes an idiot, no question, but all this hitler, treason, anti-christ, russion spy stuff is quite laughable if you can see past the partisan nonsense. 

Trump created the left's hate against Trump. He intentionally antagonized/trolled the left. It gave him instant credibility with the right. "Well Martha, I know he's a no good damn Yankee but the damn liberals really hate him so he can't be all bad. And he's got a point about that damn Kenyan." Unless you believe he sincerely believed that Obama's birth certificate was an issue. That's not to say the left weren't easy marks and eagerly engaged in the vitriol. But creating this hostility was step one in Trump's plan to become president. Well maybe step 2 after step 1's get really rich.

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, krAbs said:

To have sex with his mom, right?

Someone has to make a difference. 

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, krAbs said:

Okay, but how is that actually different then killing? Other than the fact that you can feel less guilty about it.

It's about being and nothingness. Philosophically you are not taking a life if it were never created. 

[floplag]

23 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Trump created the left's hate against Trump. He intentionally antagonized/trolled the left. It gave him instant credibility with the right. "Well Martha, I know he's a no good damn Yankee but the damn liberals really hate him so he can't be all bad. And he's got a point about that damn Kenyan." Unless you believe he sincerely believed that Obama's birth certificate was an issue. That's not to say the left weren't easy marks and eagerly engaged in the vitriol. But creating this hostility was step one in Trump's plan to become president. Well maybe step 2 after step 1's get really rich.

One person cannot create hate in another.. thats a lie, its self justification to make yourself feel better about your hate.  Thats your choice.  That makes you the one filled with hate, not him.  
The hate was used as a tool to try to sop him becoming president.  Again your bias is showing.   You give the man and the Rep party faaaaaar too much credit in my opinion.  I personally dont think he even wanted to win.  

[Thomas]

9 minutes ago, floplag said:

One person cannot create hate in another.. thats a lie, its self justification to make yourself feel better about your hate.  Thats your choice.  That makes you the one filled with hate, not him.  
The hate was used as a tool to try to sop him becoming president.  Again your bias is showing.   You give the man and the Rep party faaaaaar too much credit in my opinion.  I personally dont think he even wanted to win.  

That is akin to saying that flint cannot start a fire. It is up to the kindling to decide to light or not. Philosophically you may have a point. But parsing the difference between creating an event and creating the conditions for an event to occur does nothing to support your point in the least. If the left tried to use the hate to beat Trump then that was an error on the magnitude of a typical Angels big money free agent signing. Trump played the left so badly that months later they still can't come to grips with it. Without the legitimacy the left willingly gave Trump he'd be on his newly created Trump News Network. A hell of a Plan B.

[floplag]

No it isnt, one is a choice the other is physics.  Creating conditions still doesnt light the fire... someone has to apply the pressure and create friction.  That my friend was the media, and we all know whose camp they were in.  
All i heard from the left the entire election was racism, sexim, misogyny, russia... that was thier entire campaign along with calling everyone else sub human and attacking the second amendment.  THEY did that, the left and the media.  Trump isnt that damn smart nor is the entire Rep party.  You can have it both ways calling him stupid, dumb, idiot etc... then saying he played you.  Again deflection and hypocrisy.   
Yes it was a giant tactical error, and even moreso how they didnt catch onto it in time.. and even double so they are still playing the same rhetoric to this day creating even more losses.
Trump didnt play anyone, they played themselves by being utterly convinced of their own superiority. 
Its this general attitude that drove me from the Dem side, though i could never follow the bible thumpers on the right so... the view is definitely interesting in the middle. 

[Thomas]

2 minutes ago, floplag said:

No it isnt, one is a choice the other is physics.  Creating conditions still doesnt light the fire... someone has to apply the pressure and create friction.  That my friend was the media, and we all know whose camp they were in.  
All i heard from the left the entire election was racism, sexim, misogyny, russia... that was thier entire campaign along with calling everyone else sub human and attacking the second amendment.  THEY did that, the left and the media.  Trump isnt that damn smart nor is the entire Rep party.  You can have it both ways calling him stupid, dumb, idiot etc... then saying he played you.  Again deflection and hypocrisy.   
Yes it was a giant tactical error, and even moreso how they didnt catch onto it in time.. and even double so they are still playing the same rhetoric to this day creating even more losses.
Trump didnt play anyone, they played themselves by being utterly convinced of their own superiority. 
Its this general attitude that drove me from the Dem side, though i could never follow the bible thumpers on the right so... the view is definitely interesting in the middle. 

Argument fail:  You are conflating me with the left. And considering my argument (one sided in my favor as it may be) with @red321 in the Trumped thread it's cute. I'm not the left. I can assure you of that. I've been saying that Trump has been intelligent since the beginning. You don't get to pin the left's utter failure on me. Would you like to try again or realize the futility of your position? 

[mtangelsfan]

1 hour ago, Thomas said:

Trump created the left's hate against Trump. He intentionally antagonized/trolled the left. It gave him instant credibility with the right. "Well Martha, I know he's a no good damn Yankee but the damn liberals really hate him so he can't be all bad. And he's got a point about that damn Kenyan." Unless you believe he sincerely believed that Obama's birth certificate was an issue. That's not to say the left weren't easy marks and eagerly engaged in the vitriol. But creating this hostility was step one in Trump's plan to become president. Well maybe step 2 after step 1's get really rich.

I am not sure if this is wholly accurate.  I think the left's hate for the right created Trump.  He used that to get elected.  Now he has certainly encouraged more hatred from the left, that is for sure.

[floplag]

1 minute ago, Thomas said:

Argument fail:  You are conflating me with the left. And considering my argument (one sided in my favor as it may be) with @red321 in the Trumped thread it's cute. I'm not the left. I can assure you of that. I've been saying that Trump has been intelligent since the beginning. You don't get to pin the left's utter failure on me. Would you like to try again or realize the futility of your position? 

Not pinning anything on everyone, you suggested a reason for failure, i stated an alternative.
As you say your argument is one sides, not a huge leap to make any associations there is it.  Ive stated my affiliations, you neglected to do so.  I suspect though if i asked who you voted for, and im not asking by the way, it wasnt Trump.  
I've no idea what you are talking about on some other thread i havent read.  I will say you might be the only person that actually thinks that man is intelligent, cause i sure as hades dont see it.  
 

[Thomas]

Just now, mtangelsfan said:

I am not sure if this is wholly accurate.  I think the left's hate for the right created Trump.  He used that to get elected.  Now he has certainly encouraged more hatred from the left, that is for sure.

Who was Trump politically before he went after Obama?

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, mtangelsfan said:

I am not sure if this is wholly accurate.  I think the left's hate for the right created Trump.  He used that to get elected.  Now he has certainly encouraged more hatred from the left, that is for sure.

i think the rights hate for the left is just as responsible.  

[floplag]

Just now, mtangelsfan said:

I am not sure if this is wholly accurate.  I think the left's hate for the right created Trump.  He used that to get elected.  Now he has certainly encouraged more hatred from the left, that is for sure.

I agree actually, the lefts hatred did give us Trump.  It was literally the only way the Reps had any chance was to serve up someone that was such a polar opposite to Hillary.
Now, whether or not he used it could be debatable, but who created it isnt in my mind. 

[Thomas]

Just now, floplag said:

 I will say you might be the only person that actually thinks that man is intelligent, cause i sure as hades dont see it.  

Con men hide it well. But if you are really curious, there is plenty of example of Trump speaking intelligently (and quite differently) on YouTube from the 1980s and 90s. It was only when he started attacking Obama after his 2008 election did he change his stripes. 

[floplag]

3 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Con men hide it well. But if you are really curious, there is plenty of example of Trump speaking intelligently (and quite differently) on YouTube from the 1980s and 90s. It was only when he started attacking Obama after his 2008 election did he change his stripes. 

He has stepped on his own dork far too many times since ive been aware of him and said too many stupid things historically for me to buy that at this point.  It isnt like he was some unknown grifter.. the mans been on the public radar for 40 years for Pete's sake.  
I think it sounds like a little more self justification to make any assumptions that this man is some Mensa candidate. 
Shrewd businessman, maybe.. maybe not considering the bankruptcies.. but i doubt anyone could be neanderthal and amass the furtune he has, but, hes been the same idiot on a personal level as long as i can remember. 

[Thomas]

Just now, floplag said:

He has stepped on his own dork far too many times for me to buy that at this point.  It isnt like he was some unknown grifter.. the mans been on the public radar for 40 years for Pete's sake.  
I think it sounds like a little more self justification to make any assumptions that this man is some Mensa candidate. 

You've never worked in a place full of Mensa candidates obviously. They are..a different breed. He's not Mensa. He's a hustler. Hustling is what he needs. Not understanding the nuances of inter-workings of the atom in a quantum physics context.

[Thomas]

8 minutes ago, floplag said:

 Ive stated my affiliations, you neglected to do so.  I suspect though if i asked who you voted for, and im not asking by the way, it wasnt Trump.  

I'm a Libertarian in New Mexico. I'll give you three guesses who I voted for.

[floplag]

Just now, Thomas said:

You've never worked in a place full of Mensa candidates obviously. They are..a different breed. He's not Mensa. He's a hustler. Hustling is what he needs. Not understanding the nuances of inter-workings of the atom in a quantum physics context.

Now whose assuming?   I know full well the type on both levels thank you.  Just cause i see it different doesn't make me ignorant, it makes me no driven by bias.
In my view he would be the worst hustler... he doesnt have the snap when it comes to ad lib or split second responses, hes proven that time and time again.   

[floplag]

Just now, Thomas said:

I'm a Libertarian in New Mexico. I'll give you three guesses who I voted for.

Same guy i did, imagine that. 

[krAbs]

1 hour ago, mtangelsfan said:

John McCain = Hitler?

Good god.  

 

And as to the point of hating the other side, that is how we ended up with Trump.  If we cannot respect people who have different opinions than us then debate and compromise are dead.

 

1 hour ago, floplag said:

Your bias is shown with the "he tries to kill people..." nonsense... no, he doesnt.  your just spouting the party lines to find evil in a  man you dont know and dont have afriggin clue why he does the things he does.   you assume, you claim righteousness, you have no right to do so.
As for me im wholly in the middle, independent voter and proud to have not voted for either Trump or Clinton.  I see both parties for the liars they are with the only real difference being who they pander to. 
Either way, even if you were right, wishing death on a man you do not know, for no reason other than political ideology, makes you equally as egregious in my book. 

See:

2 hours ago, krAbs said:

Again, I don't like McCain, but I also think its horrifying to wish death on him, because decisions in politics are hard. BUT, I also think its bullshit to say that politics are just politics and you shouldn't take them personally or have that kind of reaction to them. This stuff is often important, and it can literally be life or death for people. Its hard to say that about modern politics, but painfully obvious to say it about historic politics.

My point is less about McCain, and more about [Generic politician x], so to avoid confusion, I will refer to him/her as such. Now, the rest of floplag's comment:

That my friend is your view, not a fact, there are many that see him completely differently.  As for me i see him as an idiot over his head, but i dont hate him for that.  I think most of the logic people use to hate him is completely ludicrous to be honest, its just self justification.  
Flaws in reasoning are also directly dependent on your beliefs and are rarely these days based on actual fact but interpretation of facts, which are skewed by personal belief.  
Either way, even if you were right, wishing death on a man you do not know, for no reason other than political ideology, makes you equally as egregious in my book. 

So again, I feel like we are downplaying political ideology as automatically excusing action. So, say based on policy and rhetoric, I am nervous that [Generic politician x] is going to cause me deep personally misfortune, even possibly to the point of death, or bankrupting my family. Maybe this is because of a political ideology that ends badly for me, or worse, maybe its because of some deeper, more prejudice reason. Other than the fact that it may not be politically expedient to do so, why should I let this person hide behind the screen of "Its just politics, bro. chill"? This sounds like a viewpoint that only holds water when you're NOT the one who is personally fearing for your life and safety. Or, as they would say on the left, its an argument that comes from having privilege of not being in the crosshairs.

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Lawrence said:

I'm pretty sure you just violated the terms of this message board mister moderator.

If you take a look all moderators have a tag on their profile that says Moderator. Mine only says Members. Not even Ad Exempt, just a plain old member. 

[mtangelsfan]

18 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

i think the rights hate for the left is just as responsible.  

Chicken and egg.  

[Thomas]

Just now, floplag said:

Now whose assuming?   I know full well the type on both levels thank you.  Just cause i see it different doesn't make me ignorant, it makes me no driven by bias.  

I have to question how many if you think they'd make a good candidate let alone in this intellectually adverse country.

Quote

In my view he would be the worst hustler... he doesnt have the snap when it comes to ad lib or split second responses, hes proven that time and time again.

He skills are on another level. They are astounding to watch. How do you think he built his empire?  Getting people to pay him just for the privilege of putting Trump on their building? He can get anyone to think what he wants them to think while making them think that it was their idea. He dictated message in 2016 election like no American politician has ever. HRC completely fell for the con and Trump pulled her strings the entire general election. Her husband, one of the few on Trump's level, didn't. He saw right through it. But she didn't want to listen to Bill. She wanted to do it on her own and paid the price. They will be writing journals and books about it for decades. It'll be in every American Poly Sci 101 text for centuries. All while portraying the idiot.