Tyler Skaggs

[Blarg]

Give me a V! Give me an ...

[fan_since79]

At this point I'd be happy if Angels scouts simply try to identify guys whose bodies are whole and strong. There has to be some way to do that. Look back on their history, all the way back. If they had a twinge in Little League, pass and go to the next prospect.

Their pitching stats are secondary. Just find some guys who aren't made of porcelain china. Get full medical workups from a team of orthopedists. If there's the slightest doubt about them, pass.

I'm sick of this crap, year after year.

And get some new trainers in there while they're at it. Whole new staff.

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, IEAngelsfan said:

Bad enough to have to see Ozzie Guillen in that pic  

[Angel Oracle]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

 

Hey!   That's me on the right, with my FORMER nerdy glasses.   Was that the AO! chant breaking out?  

[Inside Pitch]

6 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

At this point I'd be happy if Angels scouts simply try to identify guys whose bodies are whole and strong. There has to be some way to do that. Look back on their history, all the way back. If they had a twinge in Little League, pass and go to the next prospect.

Their pitching stats are secondary. Just find some guys who aren't made of porcelain china. Get full medical workups from a team of orthopedists. If there's the slightest doubt about them, pass.

I'm sick of this crap, year after year.

And get some new trainers in there while they're at it. Whole new staff.

By year after year you mean the last 18 months..    The Angels until last year had been among the best teams in MLB when it came to SP injuries...

[fan_since79]

Okay, last 18 months. But this could go on for years to come.

 

Edited June 19, 2017 by fan_since79

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Okay, last 18 months. But this could go on for years to come.

 

Or it's a blip...     Don't get me wrong -- I'm not trying to be a Pollyanna here, I just don't know that it's anything they could have done differently.  I think they were just lucky when they went ten years and only had two major injuries out of a potential 50 rotation spots, and I believe it's just a run of bad luck the last couple years.

Remember a few years ago when people were talking about the TJ epidemic?  The Angels were just slow to catch on.

[Blarg]

You guys obsess about things every other team goes through as if it only happens to the Angels.

[Angel Oracle]

TJ is beyond an epidemic now.  

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Angel Oracle said:

TJ is beyond an epidemic now.  

These are the first cases of TJ surgery the club has ever had. Every team has experienced this over the years.  We hadn't, until recently. 

[Angel Oracle]

Just now, Stradling said:

These are the first cases of TJ surgery the club has ever had. Every team has experienced this over the years.  We hadn't, until recently. 

Meant to say in terms of MLB in general.

[fan_since79]

11 minutes ago, Blarg said:

You guys obsess about things every other team goes through as if it only happens to the Angels.

There are other teams??

 

[Homebrewer]

Just start stocking this in the clubhouse..

[ukyah]

11 hours ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Heaney is OK to start then?

that's funny. the angels have so many starters down for the long haul that i forgot all about one of the most important ones.

[Billy_Ball]

How is NiTro coming along?

[Inside Pitch]

21 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

I give Skaggs a lot of credit for pushing through all of these injuries since the early 2010s, that have limited his pitch counts each season going back to his minors days.   But at a certain point, doubt has to creep into anyone's mind.

NOPE!....

I'm not trying to single you out AO, because you're just repeating whats been said a lot here -- the "Tyler Skaggs has always been injured since the minors" line is one of those AW.com narratives that became fact despite it being less than factual.  If his pitch counts were at all limited, and it doesn't appear they were based on his pitching totals -- it was due to his age relative to the leagues he was in.  Skaggs greatest fault has been that he was a pitching prospect at age 17, and was touted as one of MLBs best arms at age 20.  But, let's roll tape...

Skaggs gets drafted in 2009 as a true 17 year - signed and made some token appearances totaling 10 innings.  Token appearances at best. 

2010 -- Skaggs' first real season of pro ball, the dude skips rookie ball completely and starts the season in full season ball -- uncommon for a true 18 year old.   He ends up making a combined 18 starts with Cedar Rapids/South Bend (trade), the other 4 SP at Cedar Rapids made 18, 18, 19, and 19 starts -- no injuries, no missed time, his usage was in line with everyone else.

2011 -- Skaggs started in Hi-A was promoted to AA where he was the youngest pitcher in the league en route to 27 starts -- He was one start awat from having lead all D-Backs farmhands in GS -- this despite it being his true 19 year old.  Skaggs tosses 158 innings on the season -- remember this when you see the Sean Newcomb reference that will come.  At this point it could be argued he's being ridden a bit hard by the D-Backs.  No missed time.

2012 -- Skaggs starts in AA, moves to AAA, finishes the season in MLB -- 25 starts -- again zero missed starts

2013 -- Skaggs suffers his first documented injury....  in ST.... he misses 6 days and goes to AZ to get some work.   Skaggs makes a rehab start in Hi-A then spends the year on the Arizona/Reno shuffle -- his 147 IP that year are more than Sean Newcomb has thrown in any professional season who is noted as a future rotation workhorse-- Skaggs was a true 21 year old.

FOUR YEARS -- 6 days missed.

2014 -- 14 starts -- TJ...  The process back ensues and there are setbacks ....  Angels fans start calling him a pussy because well, most of them have completely idiotic expectations and are themselves supermen/orthopedic surgeons when not posting on message boards.

FWIW -- STATS.Inc keeps track of a player's minor and major league injury status.  Baseball Prospectus also tracked it through 2014 I believe....  

Narratives>Reality.

[Blarg]

Can't wait until we see some reality on the mound. Until then the narrative seems to follow what Angels fans have witnessed.

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Blarg said:

Can't wait until we see some reality on the mound. Until then the narrative seems to follow what Angels fans have witnessed.

Reality is he's not been healthy as an Angel -- the narrative that he has always been hurt down to his days as a minor league days is folklore for morons.   If Angel fans can't see the difference that's on them.

 

[ettin]

46 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

NOPE!....

I'm not trying to single you out AO, because you're just repeating whats been said a lot here -- the "Tyler Skaggs has always been injured since the minors" line is one of those AW.com narratives that became fact despite it being less than factual.  If his pitch counts were at all limited, and it doesn't appear they were based on his pitching totals -- it was due to his age relative to the leagues he was in.  Skaggs greatest fault has been that he was a pitching prospect at age 17, and was touted as one of MLBs best arms at age 20.  But, let's roll tape...

Skaggs gets drafted in 2009 as a true 17 year - signed and made some token appearances totaling 10 innings.  Token appearances at best. 

2010 -- Skaggs' first real season of pro ball, the dude skips rookie ball completely and starts the season in full season ball -- uncommon for a true 18 year old.   He ends up making a combined 18 starts with Cedar Rapids/South Bend (trade), the other 4 SP at Cedar Rapids made 18, 18, 19, and 19 starts -- no injuries, no missed time, his usage was in line with everyone else.

2011 -- Skaggs started in Hi-A was promoted to AA where he was the youngest pitcher in the league en route to 27 starts -- He was one start awat from having lead all D-Backs farmhands in GS -- this despite it being his true 19 year old.  Skaggs tosses 158 innings on the season -- remember this when you see the Sean Newcomb reference that will come.  At this point it could be argued he's being ridden a bit hard by the D-Backs.  No missed time.

2012 -- Skaggs starts in AA, moves to AAA, finishes the season in MLB -- 25 starts -- again zero missed starts

2013 -- Skaggs suffers his first documented injury....  in ST.... he misses 6 days and goes to AZ to get some work.   Skaggs makes a rehab start in Hi-A then spends the year on the Arizona/Reno shuffle -- his 147 IP that year are more than Sean Newcomb has thrown in any professional season who is noted as a future rotation workhorse-- Skaggs was a true 21 year old.

FOUR YEARS -- 6 days missed.

2014 -- 14 starts -- TJ...  The process back ensues and there are setbacks ....  Angels fans start calling him a pussy because well, most of them have completely idiotic expectations and are themselves supermen/orthopedic surgeons when not posting on message boards.

FWIW -- STATS.Inc keeps track of a player's minor and major league injury status.  Baseball Prospectus also tracked it through 2014 I believe....  

Narratives>Reality.

@Angel Oracle just got Internally Penetrated!

[Angels#1Fan]

@ettin that's just wrong. 

[Blarg]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

Reality is he's not been healthy as an Angel -- the narrative that he has always been hurt down to his days as a minor league days is folklore for morons.   If Angel fans can't see the difference that's on them.

 

What Angels fans can't see is his cleats on the mound. That is the real issue many complain about. 

[DMVol]

23 minutes ago, Blarg said:

What Angels fans can't see is his cleats on the mound. That is the real issue many complain about. 

If he comes back and stays healthy for the rest of the year, then he changes the narrative....if he he can't, then the saga continues....what happened in the past doesn't really matter at this point....what matters is what happens in early July when he (supposedly) is ready to go....we'll see...

[Angel Oracle]

Admittedly I didn't do enough research in the innings pitched early on.

Now the question begs to be asked:   Did Arizona work him TOO MUCH at too young of an age, and the past 3 years are the result of that?

[Inside Pitch]

36 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Admittedly I didn't do enough research in the innings pitched early on.

Now the question begs to be asked:   Did Arizona work him TOO MUCH at too young of an age, and the past 3 years are the result of that?

He had a pretty heavy workload at a very early age, but they did keep from crossing the 200 IP barrier, so...  they didnt go Terry Collins on him.  Like the other Angels pitchers it was likely just bad luck.   Like others have said, he can put a lot of concerns to rest by coming back and staying healthy.