Someone explain Aybar leadoff/Trout 2nd to me

[WallyWorld]

What's the logic there?

[Troutstanding]

The idea is for Trout to be protected by Pujols and Hamilton and so that Trout has more opportunities to drive in runs. Aybar leading off is by default. Peter Bourjos was obviously doing great until his injury.

[jshep]

Well, I guess the team's logic is that Trout has a chance to bat with someone on base to drive in starting with his 1st AB or something

 

But when that someone is posting a .316 OBP this year, a .324 mark last year, and a .320 mark for his career, it doesn't really make sense.

 

I'm eagerly awaiting the day when the team stops trying to use Aybar as a leadoff hitter.

[WallyWorld]

yeah, I've never understood Scioscia's insistence on Aybar in the leadoff spot.  He has never shown the capacity for it.  When Bourjos went on the DL, Trout should have gone back to leadoff.  And really, I don't think Trout should have ever been moved out of the leadoff spot.  The guy puts up one maybe the best rookie season ever and what do we do the following year - we change his position on the field and in the lineup.  

[nate]

Notice how Trout is driving in a lot more runs in the spot he is in.  Once you put Trout leadoff there is nobody hitting behind him so he sees tougher pitches.  It is pretty obvious to me.  Trout should be hitting third soon.

[GregAlso]

The logic for Trout hitting second is line up optimization research. After extensive research, detailed in "The Book," it has been scientifically, mathematically proven that a team's best hitter should bat second to optimize runs scored. This flies in the face of 100 years of conventional baseball practice. Since it does, nobody believes the research. Batting Trout second is his optimum spot. Leadoff was being manned capably by Peter. A leadoff hitter needs one important thing, high OBP, not something Aybar is good at. Power is also wasted at the leadoff spot, since research shows they come to the plate the second fewest times with runners on base (interestingly the third spot is the most.) Peter was at .370 and handling leadoff superbly. We just need a player to step in and fill in till he returns. I think Callaspo and his .347 OBP would be best, but we shall see. I realize most people disagree with the research about lineup optimization and the 2nd spot in the order, so I expect push back, but it is true.

[Angel Oracle]

Callaspo is a no brainer to take Aybar's spot.

Aybar is best served as a #9 hitter, unless he's on fire at the plate like the 2nd half of 2012.

[AZMike]

Callaspo is a no brainer to take Aybar's spot.

Aybar is best served as a #9 hitter, unless he's on fire at the plate like the 2nd half of 2012.

Only problem with Callaspo is he's not particularly fast. If Callaspo gets on first and Trout gets on with a single he won't be likely to go 1st to 3rd. He'll then be jamming Trout on the base paths. That said if trout "gets on base" with a home run it's a moot point, so in that sense I can see how having Trout bat 2nd makes sense, but with Bourjos on the DL the team doesn't really have a leadoff hitter and should go back to Trout 1st, Callaspo 2nd IMO.

[Tyler]

If they aren't going to give Trout the green light on the basepaths, then he needs to be hitting third in the lineup.

[Ray McKigney]

yeah, I've never understood Scioscia's insistence on Aybar in the leadoff spot.  He has never shown the capacity for it.  When Bourjos went on the DL, Trout should have gone back to leadoff.  And really, I don't think Trout should have ever been moved out of the leadoff spot.  The guy puts up one maybe the best rookie season ever and what do we do the following year - we change his position on the field and in the lineup.

 

I agree. I thought the same thing. Trout must think management/coaching thinks more highly of Bourjos' abilities than his. Bourjos hasn't really done or proven anything in the league, yet he's playing Trout's position in the field and takes his spot in the batting order. I don't think many other managers in the league would have done that. Yet another sign of Scioscia's ineptitude.

[Troutstanding]

I agree. I thought the same thing. Trout must think management/coaching thinks more highly of Bourjos' abilities than his. Bourjos hasn't really done or proven anything in the league, yet he's playing Trout's position in the field and takes his spot in the batting order. I don't think many other managers in the league would have done that. Yet another sign of Scioscia's ineptitude.

 

Bourjos hasn't done or proven anything in the league? Apparently you weren't watching Bourjos in 2011. Not to mention the fact that Bourjos was tearing it up before his injury while Trout was batting .250.

 

While Trout is solid at worst in CF, Bourjos is definitely better. 

 

Trout was moved to the second spot in the line up to utilize him more, not to knock him. He was put there because he is so good, not despite his ability.

[Ray McKigney]

Bourjos hasn't done or proven anything in the league? Apparently you weren't watching Bourjos in 2011. Not to mention the fact that Bourjos was tearing it up before his injury while Trout was batting .250.

 

While Trout is solid at worst in CF, Bourjos is definitely better. 

 

Trout was moved to the second spot in the line up to utilize him more, not to knock him. He was put there because he is so good, not despite his ability.

 

Yeah, I was watching in 2011. Bourjos was adequate. Look at his numbers. There is nothing outstanding there. I'm not knocking Bourjos. He was playing really well before he went on the DL. My point is that after a season like Trout had last year, you don't change his position in the batting order and position in the field. It could come across as a slap in the face. It's just bad management. Also, I don't think there is any definitive proof that Bourjos is better than Trout in CF. If so, where is it? He's made some fine catches sure, but I don't recall anything near the catches Trout has made. Trout is just as fast and his coverage of the field is just as good as Bourjos'. Trout shouldn't have been moved from CF. And watch, when Bourjos comes back from the DL, Scioscia will insert him right back into CF. He should play Bourjos in LF.

[AZMike]

Yeah, I was watching in 2011. Bourjos was adequate. Look at his numbers. There is nothing outstanding there. I'm not knocking Bourjos. He was playing really well before he went on the DL. My point is that after a season like Trout had last year, you don't change his position in the batting order and position in the field. It could come across as a slap in the face. It's just bad management. Also, I don't think there is any definitive proof that Bourjos is better than Trout in CF. If so, where is it? He's made some fine catches sure, but I don't recall anything near the catches Trout has made. Trout is just as fast and his coverage of the field is just as good as Bourjos'. Trout shouldn't have been moved from CF. And watch, when Bourjos comes back from the DL, Scioscia will insert him right back into CF. He should play Bourjos in LF.

 

Difference: "Throw from Trout ... not in time"

 

It's actually a bit of a shame to have two of the very best CF's on the team at once, as one will necessarily need to underutilized.  

[Troutipoo27]

Scioscia logic but yeah aybar gets on trout drives him in.

[Reveille1984]

Centerfield has to make more ranging plays and cover more ground, supposedly increasing injury risk.  Not sure how much data there is to back it up but it does seem like CF's get injured a lot more often than the other two OF positions.  

 

Like AZMike said as well, Trout's arm is mediocre at best while Bourjos has a plus arm.  He also seems to get quicker reads off the bat and have better positioning on tougher plays.  This is just my personal opinion, but that's what I've seen anyways.

 

Anyways, Trout has been fine in LF and is playing well so who really cares at this point.  He's already top 15 in WAR for 2013 despite his cold start.

[WallyWorld]

Scioscia logic but yeah aybar gets on trout drives him in.

 

Aybar doesn't get on.  That's the problem.

[mulwin444]

Scioscia definitely wants Aybar to be a lead-off hitter, as past seasons have demonstrated, but he's not skilled enough to pull it off.  He has the speed and ability to make contact you want but he doesn't have the discipline necessary to get on base enough to be optimum for the role.  Trout's best position in the line-up is either 2nd or 3rd due to OBP and power but, with no definite lead-off hittter to speak of, the chance to take advantage of his skills is limited.  I agree that Callaspo is probably your best option to lead-off but odds are against it as he's not Mike's obvious choice.   

[HaloMagic]

Also, I don't think there is any definitive proof that Bourjos is better than Trout in CF. If so, where is it? He's made some fine catches sure, but I don't recall anything near the catches Trout has made.

I don't recall anything near the number of misplays Trout has made, either. Add that to the difference in arms and to me there's no question. Why wouldn't you want your better fielder playing the harder spot? So you don't "upset" the other guy? The other guy should get better at fielding.

[WallyWorld]

you wonder if it's a secret little battle between Scioscia and Dipoto too.  I can't imagine Dipoto is a fan of Aybar at leadoff - he purposely didn't go out and get a leadoff hitter this offseason because he planned on Trout being that guy, now MS is screwing with it.

[Jay]

c'mon wally you have no idea what you're talking about

[Ray McKigney]

I don't recall anything near the number of misplays Trout has made, either. Add that to the difference in are,s and to me there's no question. Why wouldn't you want your better fielder playing the harder spot? So you don't "upset" the other guy? The other guy should get better at fielding.

 

What is are,s?

 

I don't agree that Bourjos is a better fielder. He's really good, but so is Trout. I don't think there is a drop off with Bourjos, I just don't see an improvement. Seems like a team/manager shoud reward a player for a once in a lifetime-type season. Not move him to a position that less-talented players play. Just my opinion.

[HaloMagic]

Arm

I think a manager should reward players by putting his team in the best possible position to win a championship.

[Ray McKigney]

I think a manager should reward players by putting his team in the best possible position to win a championship.

 

Same here. That's why playing Trout in CF is the right decision.

[HaloFan85]

It doesn't matter if it's Bourjos or Aybar at leadoff, neither will draw as much attention as Trout did last year.

[markb]

 He's made some fine catches sure, but I don't recall anything near the catches Trout has made.

 

How soon we forget.  

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=14006691&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=15248029&c_id=mlb

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=17876227&c_id=mlb

 

and the play that Trout doesn't make:

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=17220611&c_id=mlb

 

Bourjos makes a lot of spectacular plays look pedestrian because he reads the ball so early and takes good routes to the ball.  Notice in a lot of his highlight catches that his route is straight as an arrow.  Trout makes more adjustments and changes of direction when he's tracking the ball, but gets away with it with his ridiculous speed.  And of course the difference in their arms is extremely noticeable.  

 

Trout is probably the 2nd best defensive CF in baseball, he just happens to be on the same team as the 1st.