Jump to content
  • Welcome to AngelsWin.com

    AngelsWin.com - THE Internet Home for Angels fans! Unraveling Angels Baseball ... One Thread at a Time.

    Register today to comment and join the most interactive online Angels community on the net!

    Once you're a member you'll see less advertisements. If you become a Premium member and you won't see any ads! 

     

IGNORED

How is spring going for the pen?


Recommended Posts

So, as with most, I am not overly inclined to put much stock into spring stats.  I do make an exception for open competitions however.  The players competing for a job should come to camp ready to rock.  They should be ahead of the other players.  Since a good chunk of the pen can go in a number of different directions, I would have expected those on the bubble to impress early.  

Street is on the shelf with another injury.  

Miller, Mahle, Adams, Middleton, Bailey, Pounders, Morin, Ramirez, Guerra, Wright, and Yates haven't looked too good.  In a small sample, some of those guys gave up runs late in their outings while dealing with fatigue.  

Norris, Chavez, Banuelos have looked pretty meh.  Campos and Lamb aren't healthy.  

Blake Parker, Petit, Gagnon, Ege, and Bedrosian have all looked good so far.  Alvarez has looked solid in the WBC, but Petit got lit up.  

So far, there hasn't been much to abate my concern.  Lots of time left so some guys need to start stepping up.  I am not panicking as of yet, but I am hoping that a lot of this can get sorted out before the start of the season although I know it won't.  

My guess is that April and probably May will be extended spring tryouts for the pen.  Something we all anticipated, but I was hoping that a couple of our sleepers would declare themselves prior to the start of the year.  

Tomorrow is two weeks from the start of the regular season.  Let's hope we can get some clarity by then.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty safe bet that Bedrosian, Bailey, Ramirez, and Alvarez will be there on opening day.

Ege, Petit or Parker, and Norris/Chavez who doesn't get the 5th starter spot could be the first group.

I don't see any reason to believe Morin or Mahle can be trusted to get outs.

I just hope the bats are alive this April

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, CALZONE said:

Speaking of spring....are we still last in home runs? Tempe marine layer maybe?

Remember that post where the guy called you out for being the guy that loves to derail threads and you said, "fair point".  Well this is another example of you doing it just to be you.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hochevar, Fister, and Papelbon are the only real FA Ps left who could feasibly step in and do something. Barrett and Furbush would be interesting minor-league filler projects, but don't offer much more than what we have.

I think they're going to go into the season with a pitching staff very much in-flux by design. They're counting on the offense to be consistent enough to keep them in the mix while our assortment of SPs establish themselves one way or another. I think they're hoping some of the SPs who don't make the rotation can bloom into swingmen, and that a pen filled with multi-inning arms becomes the outcome. 

I don't think Eppler built this pitching staff with the intent of it looking like a traditional format with 5 SPs, a long man, a lefty specialist, two single-inning relievers a closer and a set-up man.

It's gonna be two durable SPs in Shoe and Nolasco, filled out by 'hope and prayer' talented arms with health issues (Richards, Skaggs, Meyer, Lamb, Campos, Banuelos) with a bunch of multi-inning swingmen (Ramirez, Chavez, Petit, Norris, Alvarez) and then a closer and set-up man between Bedrosian, Street, and Bailey. 

Wouldn't be surprised if Norris, Petit, and Ramirez all made the Opening Day pen. I expect the 2017 pitching to be pretty rough, but it should provide a much clearer picture for our teams pitching needs for the next few seasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bullpen is a huge concern.

Bedrock, Bailey, Ramirez and Alvarez is it as far as certainty, and of that group, Bedrock is the only elite one. Ramirez is probably the only good one. The other two are ok.

This means the Angels at least three good relievers out of their hat by opening day. The leading candidates are:

Morin - unlikely to be "good".

Campos/Lamb - Hurt

Banuelos - AAA starter.

Yates - guaranteed ok. No better/worse.

Blake Parker - see Yates

Norris - Looks good, but is getting hit hard.

Guerra - ok.

Pounders - getting pounded, pun intended.

There is some hope here though. Paredes and Middleton aren't ready, but later in the year they might be. Norris' arsenal could definitely play up in a bullpen role too. Once Street returns, he has the track record.

If things go their way, the Angels could end up with an ok pen, maybe.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, CALZONE said:

No because IP told me that spring stats are meaningless. I agree.

Look who is making things up again.   I told you to read Tank's post... and he didn't call it meaningless either.    But since you brought me into this..   I don't really put a lot of weight (if any) into the numbers veterans put up in ST, and if I did, it wouldn't the be same metrics you would.   

Speaking of ST stats..   Sort of sucks that BB Ref isn't running their ST stats -- that opponent experience data they used to show was pretty good for weeding out big numbers .vs low A talent.
 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

Look who is making things up again.   I told you to read Tank's post... and he didn't call it meaningless either.    But since you brought me into this..   I don't really put a lot of weight into the numbers veterans put up in ST, and if I did, it wouldn't the be same metrics you would.   

Speaking of ST stats..   Sort of sucks that BB Ref isn't running their ST stats -- that opponent experience data they used to show was pretty good for weeding out big numbers .vs low A talent.
 

I'm good with it. I'm not a fan of Maybin because of his china doll career but I'm on board with the "he's better than Nava" crowd. That's about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/19/2017 at 10:33 PM, Dochalo said:

So, as with most, I am not overly inclined to put much stock into spring stats.  I do make an exception for open competitions however.  The players competing for a job should come to camp ready to rock.  They should be ahead of the other players.  Since a good chunk of the pen can go in a number of different directions, I would have expected those on the bubble to impress early.  

Street is on the shelf with another injury.  

Miller, Mahle, Adams, Middleton, Bailey, Pounders, Morin, Ramirez, Guerra, Wright, and Yates haven't looked too good.  In a small sample, some of those guys gave up runs late in their outings while dealing with fatigue.  

Norris, Chavez, Banuelos have looked pretty meh.  Campos and Lamb aren't healthy.  

Blake Parker, Petit, Gagnon, Ege, and Bedrosian have all looked good so far.  Alvarez has looked solid in the WBC, but Petit got lit up.  

So far, there hasn't been much to abate my concern.  Lots of time left so some guys need to start stepping up.  I am not panicking as of yet, but I am hoping that a lot of this can get sorted out before the start of the season although I know it won't.  

My guess is that April and probably May will be extended spring tryouts for the pen.  Something we all anticipated, but I was hoping that a couple of our sleepers would declare themselves prior to the start of the year.  

Tomorrow is two weeks from the start of the regular season.  Let's hope we can get some clarity by then.  

Yates ERA doesn't reflect his 9 K's, 1 BB, and 0.86 WHIP in, of course, the limited sample size of 7 IP. The two long balls are why his ERA is so bloated but beyond that he has good symptoms of being an asset to our bullpen. Bud Norris also has 10 K's, 2 BB's, and a 1.08 WHIP in 8 IP. Chavez has 9 K's, 0 BB's, and a 1.44 WHIP (the latter obviously being bad).

The other thing to consider is that the Angels have not had their complete defensive set in place, particularly Simmons. Once things get going those peripherals, if they hold true into the actual season, could prove to be quite reliable and the actual results could improve (or get worse, nothing is more variable in results than a bullpen).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd probably put Norris and Petit in my pen to start the year. They have the ability to eat up some innings early in the year while our SPs stabilize and prove their health and the pen arms do the same.

We likely risk losing them to opt-outs if we try starting then in SLC. I say use them as insurance for a month and cut them when the other parts fall into place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I'd probably put Norris and Petit in my pen to start the year. They have the ability to eat up some innings early in the year while our SPs stabilize and prove their health and the pen arms do the same.

We likely risk losing them to opt-outs if we try starting then in SLC. I say use them as insurance for a month and cut them when the other parts fall into place.

I think if it were me, I'd roll with

Bedrock, Bailey, Ramirez, Alvarez, Norris, Campos and Banuelos. But seeing as Campos is on the shelf, I'd roll with Petit then.

I think Norris can be a good reliever in the same manner Blanton was a good RP. Banuelos needs to stay healthy and throw strikes. Being in the pen would protect him and give the Angels another lefty option, plus depth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

I think if it were me, I'd roll with

Bedrock, Bailey, Ramirez, Alvarez, Norris, Campos and Banuelos. But seeing as Campos is on the shelf, I'd roll with Petit then.

I think Norris can be a good reliever in the same manner Blanton was a good RP. Banuelos needs to stay healthy and throw strikes. Being in the pen would protect him and give the Angels another lefty option, plus depth.

Banuelos, much like Meyer (and even Campos and Lamb), is someone I'd like to see get to AAA with a rotation spot guaranteed and get at least a month of work in. I feel both (all) those arms need some stability and consistency to get back on track, and both have the upside to blossom into very legitimate pitching prospects quickly. SLC will be a tough environment, but if that quartet starts showing steady success in AAA it'd really shore up things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

Banuelos, much like Meyer (and even Campos and Lamb), is someone I'd like to see get to AAA with a rotation spot guaranteed and get at least a month of work in. I feel both (all) those arms need some stability and consistency to get back on track, and both have the upside to blossom into very legitimate pitching prospects quickly. SLC will be a tough environment, but if that quartet starts showing steady success in AAA it'd really shore up things.

I think we'll have major league starting depth regardless. I mean Meyer, Banuelos, Smith, Petit, Norris, Pounders etc....those guys are all on the depth chart somewhere.

The ones that need to develop (Meyer, Smith, Campos, Banuelos) you can justify being in AAA. But there are some guys that simply won't benefit from time in AAA. Norris, Petit specifically. But I'd argue Meyer and Banuelos wouldn't benefit from AAA either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not too good on Sunday we got rocked! 

Shoe was missing his spots up in the zone but had a boatload of k's in 4.... 7-8

Cox was deer in headlights scared/bad....First game jitters? Sven looked at Nagy and said, Different pitcher than I've seen in camp..... Sven was perturbed when the kid started missing and was all over and looked at Nagy and said "No, Thanks, I'll do this one myself".... Went out grabbed the ball brought in O'Grady and went back into the dugout and was chatting Cox up.. Nothing over the top.

Yates was missing badly though he struck out two! seemed to throw hard but straight. 

Bud Norris threw the best of the bunch! 

Moncada put on a hitting clinic! Couldn't get him out it seemed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

I think we'll have major league starting depth regardless. I mean Meyer, Banuelos, Smith, Petit, Norris, Pounders etc....those guys are all on the depth chart somewhere.

The ones that need to develop (Meyer, Smith, Campos, Banuelos) you can justify being in AAA. But there are some guys that simply won't benefit from time in AAA. Norris, Petit specifically. But I'd argue Meyer and Banuelos wouldn't benefit from AAA either.

To me, it's not so much that Meyer and Banuelos need seasoning or anything of the sort in AAA, it's just offering them an environment that's a little more controllable and less pressure for them to get five starts or so in, rather than being in the bigs with an undefined role or having a quick hook. Let them get into a groove and routine while Norris and Petit eat up those spot-start/swingman innings in April while Richards, Shoe, and Skaggs up their pitch count and prove their health. 

Also keeps us some depth for a month. Some of these arms are gonna get hurt, suck, opt-out...may as well hold onto as many as we can for a few weeks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...