Jump to content
  • Welcome to AngelsWin.com

    AngelsWin.com - THE Internet Home for Angels fans! Unraveling Angels Baseball ... One Thread at a Time.

    Register today to join the most interactive online Angels community on the net!

    Once you're a member you'll see less advertisements. Become a Premium member and you won't see any ads! 

     

IGNORED

Initial Ideas on How to Improve the Angels This Offseason


Recommended Posts

Okay folks, take this for what it is. It's an early look at a different way to rebuild the Angels this offseason. We all know the needs and the limitations. We can't solve all of our problems with money, and even if we could, the talent just isn't there to buy. We are going to have to be creative, and, we are going to have to accept some limitations if we are going to make the team better overall. It's been a while since I've been writing, and I'm trying to ease my way back into it, but I thought I'd put something on here to start the discussion going forward.

 

So, here are some thoughts I've had. I get it that I will be criticized for some of the trades (not necessarily working out), but I'd at least suggest them. And, we can argue about the money a bit more later. 

 

First Move: Trade Mike Morin and Victor Alcantara to the Yankees for Bret Gardner and Rob Refsnyder.

 

Why we'd do it: It solves left field and gives us a starting point for second base. Gardner can leadoff, Escobar drops to second, and Trout now has a much better chance to hit with more runners on base. More importantly, Gardner's contract is for 2 more years, at which point Jones or Hermosillo should be ready to take over the position. If they need a little more seasoning, Gardner's contract has an option for 2019, which we could easily exercise. In a pinch, Gardner could play CF to give Trout a day off. 

 

As for Refsnyder, the scouting reports on his defense at 2B are mixed, but I will be honest, mostly not good. I haven't seen him play there enough to really comment on it. He's young, so maybe he can be improved with reps. I don't expect him to be elite, but if he can be average, that would be a step up from what we've had, especially if he can produce offensively (his bat is supposed to be worth it). Plus, with a subsequent move (see below), I will be able to limit his defensive liabilities if they can't be overcome through improvement. He wouldn't be my starter, but, he should get between 200-300 ABs over the course of a season. And, for those who want to harp on Refsnyder's defensive limits, I have to ask how many of you would be willing to try converting Cowart into a 2B? If you are comfortable with him manning the position, I think Refsnyder would be at least as good at 2B as Cowart, if not better defensively.

 

Why the Yankees would do it: They want to shed some salary and need to add some power to their lineup. They have several OF prospects who could easily replace Gardner, or they could go after a more elite OFer with power to replace him. They need bullpen help (as do we, and I know, we're trading away bullpen assets--but we need LF and 2B help more, and bullpen arms might be easier to find than those positions). Yes, I get it that they'd say that it's not fair value, but Gardner is coming off a down year, Refsnyder essentially has no home in their lineup (he's blocked at both 2B and the OF), so, they may be happy to shed payroll to improve elsewhere. Alcantra and Morin both have upside, and could easily bolster a major league pen in the long run. Yankees fans might not be happy with the move initially, but when they get a big splash somewhere else, they probably will forget about the trade very quickly. They need to shed payroll and get younger if they want to become again. They won't get fair value without eating salary, and I think they'd rather have the payroll flexibility than get fair value back for these two players.

 

Second Move: Sign Jeremy Hellickson.

 

The Angels have the highest protected pick this year. We need to utilize the security that it provides. Of the top free agent pitchers this year, the one I'd pursue, and the one I think Eppler will pursue is Hellickson. I think he can be had for the most reasonable deal in terms of dollars and years (Rich Hill may be a shorter deal, but more dollars and more risk due to his age). I could be wrong on this, as most teams may want to jump in on him, but, he would be my preferred choice. At some point, I'd walk away from the deal and pursue Nova, but would much prefer to sign Hellickson because he has a better track record.

 

Third Move: Sign Sean Rodriguez to Play 2B.

 

I always like Rodriguez as an Angels prospect and always thought that he would produce some power. And, I've always liked how flexible Rodriguez has been defensively. The Angels will need to get more overlap out of their roster so that one injury doesn't become too critical. We have no depth at 2B anywhere near ready. With Rodriguez and Refsnyder, we'd have some backup. Plus, he can also play 3B, OF, and 1B in a pinch. 

 

Look at how much losing Cron hurt the team last season. Not that it was the reason why the team was so bad, but, it certainly didn't help. With a roster of Rodriguez, Marte, Pennington, and Cowart, we'd have much more flexibility around the entire infield and wouldn't have such a tremendous drop in production if an injury occurs.

 

Fourth Move: Spend all Remaining Money on Boosting the Bullpen.

 

Most likely, Street and Bedrosian will return next year fully healthy to form a nice end to the bullpen. But, the 6th and 7th innings could sure use some help, especially, if Morin is traded. While I think Middleton could be ready for a role in the pen by the end of the season, we need more help now. We can argue about which arms to pursue, and I'll let plenty of people discuss that. I will trust the FO to try and get the most out of the remaining funds. Since a lot of that will depend on how much we spend based on the three previous moves, it's a bit difficult to speculate these moves.

 

Conclusion

 

Overall, I think all of these moves are affordable for the Angels this offseason. Sure, we might have to add a little more to get the trade done with the Yankees, but I think it's a good start on the idea. They aren't totally dealing from a position of strength (as mentioned, Gardner did have a down year--even though he still got on base well), and Refsnyder is blocked. They can't add too much payroll, and would be better off shedding some payroll. I believe that these moves fit with most of Eppler's comments about still wanting to improve getting on base and his familiarity with players from the AL East. It would definitely make the Angels an improved team, one that would be far more competitive than last year's team.

 

Proposed New Rotation

Richards

Hellickson

Shoemaker

Nolasco

Meyer

 

Proposed New Lineup

1. Gardner, LF (L)

2. Escobar, 3B (R)

3. Trout, CF (R)

4. Pujols, DH (R)

5. Calhoun, RF (L)

6. Cron, 1B (R)

7. Bandy, C (R)

8. Rodriguez, 2B (R)

9. Simmons, SS (R)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not bad, but one quibble. Hellickson is a solid pitcher, but more of a #3-4 type -- which is pretty much Skagg's projected floor. Why not just give the much less expensive Skaggs a shot? Or why not put Meyer into the bullpen where he could thrive? Either way, Skaggs deserves a rotation spot. I have my questions about whether he'll ever pan out, but the potential to be a #2-3 is still there.

The problem for the Angels is that every member of the projected rotation, except for Nolasco--who is a sure-bet for #4 level production--is a question mark in terms of health, consistency, etc. The makes it rather difficult to plan for the season. But my view is that Eppler shouldn't spend on solid, #3-5 types, but rather hope for the best with Richards, Shoemaker, Skaggs, Nolasco and Meyer, and then build depth via more Meyer/Banuelos type pick-ups: cheap players with some upside. You get enough of these guys and someone is bound to turn out.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just a couple of things:

1)  I don't mind the idea of Gardner as a maybe a bounce back candidate if the Yankees are willing to eat some of the remaining $26 owed over the next two seasons ($12.5 mil in 2017, $11.5 mil in 2018 and $2 mil to buy out the options in 2019).  His numbers have been on the downward trend the last three seasons and is really only good for some solid LF defense, decent OBP and a handful of steals.  As for Rob Refsnyder, he's still young (25) and has some success in the minors.  I don't know if question marks like Morin and Alcantara are enough to get both or even Refsnyder by himself.  Yankees just traded away their best BP pieces in Miller and Chapman and need guys that fill the void which these guys are not.  I guess your best shot might be both Morin and Alcantara for Gardner with Yankees chipping in some cash but, in the end, they are the Yankees and don't need salary relief.

 

2)  Wouldn't mind Hellickson as a 3 or 4 starter but don't know if he's worth losing our 2nd round pick for in '17.  It all comes down to if he gets a QO and what the prevailing contract offers are for him next year.

 

3)  As for Rodriguez, depends on how much he's going to cost.  Career years at age 31 are suspicious and he was a .700 OPS player before that with limited OBP skills.  If he doesn't cost much, sure.

4)  I agree the most money should be invested in rehabilitating the bullpen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Not bad, but one quibble. Hellickson is a solid pitcher, but more of a #3-4 type -- which is pretty much Skagg's projected floor. Why not just give the much less expensive Skaggs a shot? Or why not put Meyer into the bullpen where he could thrive? Either way, Skaggs deserves a rotation spot. I have my questions about whether he'll ever pan out, but the potential to be a #2-3 is still there.

The problem for the Angels is that every member of the projected rotation, except for Nolasco--who is a sure-bet for #4 level production--is a question mark in terms of health, consistency, etc. The makes it rather difficult to plan for the season. But my view is that Eppler shouldn't spend on solid, #3-5 types, but rather hope for the best with Richards, Shoemaker, Skaggs, Nolasco and Meyer, and then build depth via more Meyer/Banuelos type pick-ups: cheap players with some upside. You get enough of these guys and someone is bound to turn out.

 

We could put Meyer in the pen at first and Skaggs in the rotation. I just figured we'd still need some surplus pitching, and with all the injuries, would like Hellickson as well as Skaggs and Meyer. I know that Hellickson is a #3 type pitcher, but there aren't any better FA options and we don't have the talent on the farm to swing a deal for a better pitcher. Even with Hellickson, I'd also pursue some other pickups to have the depth. I don't want to go through another season wondering if we can even get anyone to throw the ball across the plate. We need more depth and versatility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Just a couple of things:

1)  I don't mind the idea of Gardner as a maybe a bounce back candidate if the Yankees are willing to eat some of the remaining $26 owed over the next two seasons ($12.5 mil in 2017, $11.5 mil in 2018 and $2 mil to buy out the options in 2019).  His numbers have been on the downward trend the last three seasons and is really only good for some solid LF defense, decent OBP and a handful of steals.  As for Rob Refsnyder, he's still young (25) and has some success in the minors.  I don't know if question marks like Morin and Alcantara are enough to get both or even Refsnyder by himself.  Yankees just traded away their best BP pieces in Miller and Chapman and need guys that fill the void which these guys are not.  I guess your best shot might be both Morin and Alcantara for Gardner with Yankees chipping in some cash but, in the end, they are the Yankees and don't need salary relief.

 

2)  Wouldn't mind Hellickson as a 3 or 4 starter but don't know if he's worth losing our 2nd round pick for in '17.  It all comes down to if he gets a QO and what the prevailing contract offers are for him next year.

 

3)  As for Rodriguez, depends on how much he's going to cost.  Career years at age 31 are suspicious and he was a .700 OPS player before that with limited OBP skills.  If he doesn't cost much, sure.

4)  I agree the most money should be invested in rehabilitating the bullpen.

1) That's why I thought Refsnyder and Gardner might be the better combo. The Yankees have much better internal and external options to replace both, and rather than giving up salary, which might hamper their ability to pursue a high-end bullpen piece, they'd rather give up pieces to get more salary relief. I agree talent wise, it's not a fair trade. But, throw in the salary relief that they will get, and we may have the workings of a deal.

 

2) Agree that there is a ceiling of where I'd go regarding Hellickson, but, if we could get him at 4/$64, I'd do it. 

 

3) Again, agree that all things have an upper price limit. However, we need to solve 2B for the foreseeable future, so, we need someone for 3-4 years at that position.

 

4) Bullpens have so many variables that it is hard to determine what would be the best fit. But, we need to throw money at the problem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW, Refsnyder also grew up an Angels fan and went to Laguna Hills, and as we've seen with Nolasco, sometimes a player simply coming home can let them flourish. Gardner checks off many of the same boxes I'd be eyeing with Jon Jay who I've been wanting, so no disagreement there.

I'm not sold on Hellickson. He'd be helpful for 2017, but I think his production can be closely replicated in-house in 2018-20 with guys like Heaney and Tropeano coming back. He was really, really sub-par for three years before this season. It feels like the CJ Wilson deal all over again, a 5-yr, $80m deal that really, really blows by the last two years. Plus we lose our 2nd rounder. Basically, I don't want a $15-18m/yr Jeremy Hellickson clogging a back of the rotation spot for 4 years when we should have a full rotation's worth of cheaper, comparable arms by next year. I think if I was going to shell out that amount of coin and lose a pick, I'd look at Jansen first. That said, I'm satisfied enough with Eppler's track record so far though that if he decided Hellickson was the guy, I wouldn't bitch too much about it and hope he provides 200 IP with a sub-4 ERA for 3 or 4 years, and he may be capable of that. The biggest thing I want to see added in the rotation this offseason is durability. 

I'm good with the Angels signing SRod. I don't know if we'd count on him to be much better than what we have in-house, but as I've mentioned in other threads, I don't like the idea of moving Marte into a 'full-time' LF role without making an additional move to replace the presence he'd have on the bench, and SRod would do that to a degree. 

I could see Boone Logan creeping into the bullpen discussion as well, and I'd like to see an effort to bring both Bailey and Chacin back. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I like about Gardner and SRod is that both would be pretty tradeable in a deadline or two. Any contending team will appreciate Gardner's speed, defense, and vet presence, and SRod's versatility. I don't want us to really lock in any sort of vets that have the potential to be untradeable due to their contract after a couple seasons. Keep the roster flexible for now. 

The Yankees are a very intriguing trade partner. Obviously, Eppler has connections, but digging deeper, I can see the Angels looking to take a team's bloated contracts with prospects thrown in, and the Yankees match up well in that regard. They have plenty of contracts they'd be happy to offload, such as Gardner, Ellsbury, Sabathia, even McCann and after last year's sell-off they have plenty of prospects that could use playing time in '17, as well as a deep enough farm that they could spare one or two in exchange for salary relief. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

FWIW, Refsnyder also grew up an Angels fan and went to Laguna Hills, and as we've seen with Nolasco, sometimes a player simply coming home can let them flourish. Gardner checks off many of the same boxes I'd be eyeing with Jon Jay who I've been wanting, so no disagreement there.

I'm not sold on Hellickson. He'd be helpful for 2017, but I think his production can be closely replicated in-house in 2018-20 with guys like Heaney and Tropeano coming back. He was really, really sub-par for three years before this season. It feels like the CJ Wilson deal all over again, a 5-yr, $80m deal that really, really blows by the last two years. Plus we lose our 2nd rounder. Basically, I don't want a $15-18m/yr Jeremy Hellickson clogging a back of the rotation spot for 4 years when we should have a full rotation's worth of cheaper, comparable arms by next year. I think if I was going to shell out that amount of coin and lose a pick, I'd look at Jansen first. That said, I'm satisfied enough with Eppler's track record so far though that if he decided Hellickson was the guy, I wouldn't bitch too much about it and hope he provides 200 IP with a sub-4 ERA for 3 or 4 years, and he may be capable of that. The biggest thing I want to see added in the rotation this offseason is durability. 

I'm good with the Angels signing SRod. I don't know if we'd count on him to be much better than what we have in-house, but as I've mentioned in other threads, I don't like the idea of moving Marte into a 'full-time' LF role without making an additional move to replace the presence he'd have on the bench, and SRod would do that to a degree. 

I could see Boone Logan creeping into the bullpen discussion as well, and I'd like to see an effort to bring both Bailey and Chacin back. 

I would want both Bailey and Chacin back, in that order.

I get what people are saying about Hellickson, but, we need more pitching depth. Remember, after next year, Nolasco is gone, so Tropeano and/or Heaney already will be needed. Meyer could stay in the pen. And, we always will need an extra few arms, so, I'd rather have Hellickson at a reasonable deal (I think 4/$64 is fair and reasonable). We just have so many questions about our pitching that I'd rather have too much over too little.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Dave Saltzer said:

I would want both Bailey and Chacin back, in that order.

I get what people are saying about Hellickson, but, we need more pitching depth. Remember, after next year, Nolasco is gone, so Tropeano and/or Heaney already will be needed. Meyer could stay in the pen. And, we always will need an extra few arms, so, I'd rather have Hellickson at a reasonable deal (I think 4/$64 is fair and reasonable). We just have so many questions about our pitching that I'd rather have too much over too little.

Worth noting, Nolasco has a team option for 2018 that becomes a player option if he throws a total of 400 IP in 16 and 17. He only needs to hit 203 IP this season, which is possible. Heaney and Trop definitely aren't guaranteed to come back as strong, and you never know how Shoe, Skaggs, and Richards hold up. And I'm with you also in that I'm not convinced Meyer will last in the rotation.

I totally agree on the sentiment though. I think you and both agree that the team would benefit greatly just by having a durable, decent SP and Hellickson definitely fits that bill. It's just a matter of cost. 4/64 would be my cut-off, but I think he's going to exceed that. I actually think Ivan Nova even winds up coming close to 4/64.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys are a lot higher on SRod than myself.  I don't know, I guess I see a guy who's hit .230 .300 .700 over a decade and there's really not much there to look at.  Sure, he can play multiple positions and that has value but if you going for quasi-2B who can play elsewhere why not Chris Coghlan or Daniel Descalso?  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

You guys are a lot higher on SRod than myself.  I don't know, I guess I see a guy who's hit .230 .300 .700 over a decade and there's really not much there to look at.  Sure, he can play multiple positions and that has value but if you going for quasi-2B who can play elsewhere why not Chris Coghlan or Daniel Descalso?  

Agreed, but at some point all of these guys have risks and you just gotta pull the trigger on one here or there. I wouldn't object to either of those options either. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like the idea of trading for Gardner. Good defense and speed on the bases. He is also a veteran presence. He has that Erstad quality ... which I like. 

Skaggs is a starter next season. I'm not that concerned with Meyer, just yet. Meyer isn't a given for SP or bullpen. It's even possible Meyer is traded. The team needs a reliable front rotation starter. 

I wouldn't be surprised the FO goes after a starting catcher ... Ramos, Weiters, Castro, and Hundley.

It's going to be a fun off season. I see the FO making deals. I also see the gang here screaming bloody murder at their every move :P

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Skaggs is a starter next season. I'm not that concerned with Meyer, just yet. Meyer isn't a given for SP or bullpen. It's even possible Meyer is traded. The team needs a reliable front rotation starter. 

I wouldn't be surprised the FO goes after a starting catcher ... Ramos, Weiters, Castro, and Hundley.

I was encouraged by Meyer - I do have concerns he won't last in the rotation, but think at minimum he could be a Jepsen-type in the pen. Obviously I'd hope he'd find himself quicker than Jeppy did, but think that's his floor.

Agree on catcher - even if it's just another Soto-type who can back up. It's allow us to shop Bandy and Perez who are talented enough and have enough control that either would have good trade value, and we may be better off flipping one of them for another young prospect and going year by year on vets until Ward is ready.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I was encouraged by Meyer - I do have concerns he won't last in the rotation, but think at minimum he could be a Jepsen-type in the pen. Obviously I'd hope he'd find himself quicker than Jeppy did, but think that's his floor.

Agree on catcher - even if just another Soto-type who can back up. Bandy and Perez are talented enough and have enough control that either would have good trade value, and we may be better off flipping one of them for another young prospect and going year by year on vets until Ward is ready.

I'm on board with Meyer ... hoping he can develop enough confidence to become a legit front rotation starter. Although, when making trades you don't know who's name will come into the conversation. 

I consider Bandy and Perez as backup catchers. I could be wrong of course. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, mulwin444 said:

You guys are a lot higher on SRod than myself.  I don't know, I guess I see a guy who's hit .230 .300 .700 over a decade and there's really not much there to look at.  Sure, he can play multiple positions and that has value but if you going for quasi-2B who can play elsewhere why not Chris Coghlan or Daniel Descalso?  

I agree, I'm a bit higher on Rodriguez because I saw him in the minors, thought he'd have more power, and he finally showed it this year, swinging like he did in the minors. I've read some articles on him saying that he went back to his original swing (which the Angels changed--which could make it harder to sign him), and he rediscovered the power this year. 

 

But, your options are fine and in many ways, they place an upper limit on how much we should pay for any of these 2B players. Of the two, I'd prefer Coghlan, but you raise good ideas as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Dave Saltzer said:

I agree, I'm a bit higher on Rodriguez because I saw him in the minors, thought he'd have more power, and he finally showed it this year, swinging like he did in the minors. I've read some articles on him saying that he went back to his original swing (which the Angels changed--which could make it harder to sign him), and he rediscovered the power this year. 

 

But, your options are fine and in many ways, they place an upper limit on how much we should pay for any of these 2B players. Of the two, I'd prefer Coghlan, but you raise good ideas as well.

I think you look at all three and see who signs for the best deal.  Again, I'm not objecting to SRod's signing, as someone who can play many positions has value.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

I think you look at all three and see who signs for the best deal.  Again, I'm not objecting to SRod's signing, as someone who can play many positions has value.

And as I mentioned, all of those guys are versatile enough - as is Refsnyder - that it at the very least improves the bench/club versatility enough where it lets you rely on Marte a little bit more as an 'everyday' LF, so you get the added bonus of lessening the need to spend there. Bringing either of these guys in pushes Pennington, Petit, and Cowart down a slot.

Really any of them can cover 2B, back-up IF, or LF, so if they emerge as a candidate in either position, it solves a need. To a lesser degree - much lesser - Chase Utley, Kelly Johnson, and Stephen Drew are also guys the Angels had interest in last year that could sort of fill that role too. I'd rather go with the younger choices of SRod, Descalso, and Coghlan though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Dave Saltzer said:

Gardner can leadoff, Escobar drops to second, and Trout now has a much better chance to hit with more runners on base.

Calhoun's OBP is .348 while Gardner's is .351 also Calhoun has a higher average and SLG than Gardner. I don't see how that relates to Trout hitting with more men on base.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Dave Saltzer said:

Why the Yankees would do it: They want to shed some salary and need to add some power to their lineup. They have several OF prospects who could easily replace Gardner, or they could go after a more elite OFer with power to replace him. They need bullpen help (as do we, and I know, we're trading away bullpen assets--but we need LF and 2B help more, and bullpen arms might be easier to find than those positions).

Marte needs some more reps in LF, but if he can become an acceptable fielder in LF, I expect he could hit 30 HRs next year with regular AB. Plus no need to trade for him and he is under team control for many more years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

I'm not sold on Hellickson. He'd be helpful for 2017, but I think his production can be closely replicated in-house in 2018-20 with guys like Heaney and Tropeano coming back. He was really, really sub-par for three years before this season. It feels like the CJ Wilson deal all over again, a 5-yr, $80m deal that really, really blows by the last two years. Plus we lose our 2nd rounder. Basically, I don't want a $15-18m/yr Jeremy Hellickson clogging a back of the rotation spot for 4 years when we should have a full rotation's worth of cheaper, comparable arms by next year. I think if I was going to shell out that amount of coin and lose a pick, I'd look at Jansen first. That said, I'm satisfied enough with Eppler's track record so far though that if he decided Hellickson was the guy, I wouldn't bitch too much about it and hope he provides 200 IP with a sub-4 ERA for 3 or 4 years, and he may be capable of that. The biggest thing I want to see added in the rotation this offseason is durability. 
 

Pretty much this. Signing Hellickson would really just be depth for 2017...might as well look for someone who won't require a bit contract. And I agree that I'd rather lose a pick for an elite performer, even if it is a reliever.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Cowart is an elite 3B defender so I would guess he would be quite a good defender at 2B also.

Good call.  I first started talking about trading for Refsnyder two years ago and have long wanted to see him in an Angels uniform but if there is a hole to his game it's his defense at 2B..  

Refsnyder was a college RFer who was moved to the IF because his power wouldn't translate to a corner spot.  The problem is his glove just hasn't developed.  There were scouting reports as early as 2014 lamenting the state of his glove and how it was the primary reason he wasn't yet a Yankee already.  Dude has been pretty surehanded, he's just very stiff at 2B.   We aren't talking Grant Green level awful but he's nowhere near being the defender Cowart is.

On the plus side -- not being as good a defender as Cowart doesn't mean he would be worse than what Johnny G was...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Image result for Mike Trout and Brett Gardner

By David Saltzer, AngelsWin.com Senior Writer - 

Okay folks, take this for what it is. It's an early look at a different way to rebuild the Angels this offseason. We all know the needs and the limitations. We can't solve all of our problems with money, and even if we could, the talent just isn't there to buy. We are going to have to be creative, and, we are going to have to accept some limitations if we are going to make the team better overall. It's been a while since I've been writing, and I'm trying to ease my way back into it, but I thought I'd put something on here to start the discussion going forward.

So, here are some thoughts I've had. I get it that I will be criticized for some of the trades (not necessarily working out), but I'd at least suggest them. And, we can argue about the money a bit more later. 

First Move: Trade Mike Morin and Victor Alcantara to the Yankees for Bret Gardner and Rob Refsnyder.

Why we'd do it: It solves left field and gives us a starting point for second base. Gardner can leadoff, Escobar drops to second, and Trout now has a much better chance to hit with more runners on base. More importantly, Gardner's contract is for 2 more years, at which point Jones or Hermosillo should be ready to take over the position. If they need a little more seasoning, Gardner's contract has an option for 2019, which we could easily exercise. In a pinch, Gardner could play CF to give Trout a day off. 

As for Refsnyder, the scouting reports on his defense at 2B are mixed, but I will be honest, mostly not good. I haven't seen him play there enough to really comment on it. He's young, so maybe he can be improved with reps. I don't expect him to be elite, but if he can be average, that would be a step up from what we've had, especially if he can produce offensively (his bat is supposed to be worth it). Plus, with a subsequent move (see below), I will be able to limit his defensive liabilities if they can't be overcome through improvement. He wouldn't be my starter, but, he should get between 200-300 ABs over the course of a season. And, for those who want to harp on Refsnyder's defensive limits, I have to ask how many of you would be willing to try converting Cowart into a 2B? If you are comfortable with him manning the position, I think Refsnyder would be at least as good at 2B as Cowart, if not better defensively.

Why the Yankees would do it: They want to shed some salary and need to add some power to their lineup. They have several OF prospects who could easily replace Gardner, or they could go after a more elite OFer with power to replace him. They need bullpen help (as do we, and I know, we're trading away bullpen assets--but we need LF and 2B help more, and bullpen arms might be easier to find than those positions). Yes, I get it that they'd say that it's not fair value, but Gardner is coming off a down year, Refsnyder essentially has no home in their lineup (he's blocked at both 2B and the OF), so, they may be happy to shed payroll to improve elsewhere. Alcantra and Morin both have upside, and could easily bolster a major league pen in the long run. Yankees fans might not be happy with the move initially, but when they get a big splash somewhere else, they probably will forget about the trade very quickly. They need to shed payroll and get younger if they want to become again. They won't get fair value without eating salary, and I think they'd rather have the payroll flexibility than get fair value back for these two players.

Second Move: Sign Jeremy Hellickson.

The Angels have the highest protected pick this year. We need to utilize the security that it provides. Of the top free agent pitchers this year, the one I'd pursue, and the one I think Eppler will pursue is Hellickson. I think he can be had for the most reasonable deal in terms of dollars and years (Rich Hill may be a shorter deal, but more dollars and more risk due to his age). I could be wrong on this, as most teams may want to jump in on him, but, he would be my preferred choice. At some point, I'd walk away from the deal and pursue Nova, but would much prefer to sign Hellickson because he has a better track record.

Third Move: Sign Sean Rodriguez to Play 2B.

I always like Rodriguez as an Angels prospect and always thought that he would produce some power. And, I've always liked how flexible Rodriguez has been defensively. The Angels will need to get more overlap out of their roster so that one injury doesn't become too critical. We have no depth at 2B anywhere near ready. With Rodriguez and Refsnyder, we'd have some backup. Plus, he can also play 3B, OF, and 1B in a pinch. 

Look at how much losing Cron hurt the team last season. Not that it was the reason why the team was so bad, but, it certainly didn't help. With a roster of Rodriguez, Marte, Pennington, and Cowart, we'd have much more flexibility around the entire infield and wouldn't have such a tremendous drop in production if an injury occurs.

Fourth Move: Spend all Remaining Money on Boosting the Bullpen.

Most likely, Street and Bedrosian will return next year fully healthy to form a nice end to the bullpen. But, the 6th and 7th innings could sure use some help, especially, if Morin is traded. While I think Middleton could be ready for a role in the pen by the end of the season, we need more help now. We can argue about which arms to pursue, and I'll let plenty of people discuss that. I will trust the FO to try and get the most out of the remaining funds. Since a lot of that will depend on how much we spend based on the three previous moves, it's a bit difficult to speculate these moves.

Conclusion

Overall, I think all of these moves are affordable for the Angels this offseason. Sure, we might have to add a little more to get the trade done with the Yankees, but I think it's a good start on the idea. They aren't totally dealing from a position of strength (as mentioned, Gardner did have a down year--even though he still got on base well), and Refsnyder is blocked. They can't add too much payroll, and would be better off shedding some payroll. I believe that these moves fit with most of Eppler's comments about still wanting to improve getting on base and his familiarity with players from the AL East. It would definitely make the Angels an improved team, one that would be far more competitive than last year's team.

Proposed New Rotation

Richards

Hellickson

Shoemaker

Nolasco

Skaggs/Meyer


Proposed New Lineup

1. Gardner, LF (L)

2. Escobar, 3B (R)

3. Trout, CF (R)

4. Pujols, DH (R)

5. Calhoun, RF (L)

6. Cron, 1B (R)

7. Bandy, C (R)

8. Rodriguez, 2B (R)

9. Simmons, SS (R)
V-KZVs1WZ78

View the full article

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Marte needs some more reps in LF, but if he can become an acceptable fielder in LF, I expect he could hit 30 HRs next year with regular AB. Plus no need to trade for him and he is under team control for many more years.

I think Marte can become that as well, but it wouldn't keep me from looking for a LF in the short-term

I have no problem with Marte spending '17 as the power bench bat we've lacked for a long time. He'll still see sufficient time picking up ABs at OF/IF/DH, and he also gives us a safety net should Gardner, Cron, Pujols, or Escobar get hurt, and out of those names, pretty good bet one of them misses some time. 

He's still young. Come 2018, if he's maintained his production, we could shift him over to 3B as Escobar departs, shop Cron (who hopefully has a monster '17 to boost his value) and use him at 1B, or again look at him at LF now that he will have had more experience and shop Gardner. It gives us lots of options.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...