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Twins acquire Santiago

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2 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Except Newcomb hasn't had any shoulder issues....

Meyers shoulder issue is no different than Skaggs ... it's being reported as tendinitis. 

Angels did their homework and went over his medicals with a 'fine tooth comb'. 

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7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

 

The only minor league talent they got in that trade was Josh Naylor, a short unathletic 1B that hasn't really hit like a 1B yet.   The rest of that trade was Carter Capps, a RP rehabbing TJ surgery and Jarred Cosart -- keep in mind they threw in another guy too..   You seem to be overstating the return on Cashner just a tad...

Naylor was in the futures game right? I'm pretty sure he's the guy who I pointed at and yelled "that's not a prospect!!" as if everyone could hear me through the television....

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With our recent history (going back to Morales) the jokes are too easy to make about the Angels being able to diagnose the extent of an injury looking at an MRI.  So I will just cross my fingers and hope the guy has tendinitis. 

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1 minute ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Naylor was in the futures game right? I'm pretty sure he's the guy who I pointed at and yelled "that's not a prospect!!" as if everyone could hear me through the television....

Yep..  Canadian kid with John Kruk's physique.

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It looks like he has a history of shoulder issues. He's missed a lot of time in his minor league career.

The obvious defense of the move is that Meyer is a high upside prospect at a high risk. Unfortunately no matter how I look at this guy I can't help but see him as a failed prospect. A Grant Green type or maybe a guy like Corey Rasmus, who couldn't stay healthy as a starter, looked decent out of the pen, but ultimately couldn't stay healthy there either. This is the return you expect for a Joe Smith, not a starting pitcher with another year of control.

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25 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Except Newcomb hasn't had any shoulder issues....

He's a pitcher. It's not a matter of if but a matter of when. If it's the same ailment that Skaggs had this season, as has been reported, then I might try prescribing that injury. It sure seemed to get Skaggs on track.

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15 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

It looks like he has a history of shoulder issues. He's missed a lot of time in his minor league career.

The obvious defense of the move is that Meyer is a high upside prospect at a high risk. Unfortunately no matter how I look at this guy I can't help but see him as a failed prospect. A Grant Green type or maybe a guy like Corey Rasmus, who couldn't stay healthy as a starter, looked decent out of the pen, but ultimately couldn't stay healthy there either. This is the return you expect for a Joe Smith, not a starting pitcher with another year of control.

Santiago by himself couldn't get Meyers ... yet, you think Joe Smith could?

You may want to rethink that comment or do some homework on Meyers.

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I slept on this last night and I don't like it.  After parsing through what other sellers were getting, I think we could have done better.  I know that's arrogant, because what the hell do I know, but there it is.  

In my eyes, it's another case where Eppler targets a player but misreads the other side as to what it will take to get said player.  Honestly, I think this could have been Nolasco, Meyer and another prospects from the twins instead of us giving up one in their direction.  

I like that Eppler and Co seem to know what they are doing in terms of player eval.  I just think he needs to play the game a little bit better.  

But it is what it is and I hope Meyer is great.  

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15 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I slept on this last night and I don't like it.  After parsing through what other sellers were getting, I think we could have done better.  I know that's arrogant, because what the hell do I know, but there it is.  

In my eyes, it's another case where Eppler targets a player but misreads the other side as to what it will take to get said player.  Honestly, I think this could have been Nolasco, Meyer and another prospects from the twins instead of us giving up one in their direction.  

I like that Eppler and Co seem to know what they are doing in terms of player eval.  I just think he needs to play the game a little bit better.  

But it is what it is and I hope Meyer is great.  

Angel Miranda. That's who the Angels could have gotten. 

 

I think many of you are simply overrating Santiago. 20 scouts were there on Saturday and watched him throw 119 pitches in 5 innings. 

If you had a guy who was a safe bet to be better than that, even in a year or two, why would you trade him for Santiago?

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7 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Angel Miranda. That's who the Angels could have gotten. 

 

I think many of you are simply overrating Santiago. 20 scouts were there on Saturday and watched him throw 119 pitches in 5 innings. 

If you had a guy who was a safe bet to be better than that, even in a year or two, why would you trade him for Santiago?

This is why you don't trade with another non-contending team. The leverage at the deadline is that some teams feel they are a player or two away from real contention, this year. You can downplay Hector's value, but I find it hard to believe he's not better than someone currently in the rotation on a top-15 team.

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8 minutes ago, Jobu said:

This is why you don't trade with another non-contending team. The leverage at the deadline is that some teams feel they are a player or two away from real contention, this year. You can downplay Hector's value, but I find it hard to believe he's not better than someone currently in the rotation on a top-15 team.

While I agree with you, it isn't as simple as that. That team then has to weigh how much better Hector is and the assets it would take to get him.  If you have a stacked farm then the trade is easier to handle, but if you don't then you are mortgaging part of your future to get a very good starter, but he may only go five innings. 

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6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

While I agree with you, it isn't as simple as that. That team then has to weigh how much better Hector is and the assets it would take to get him.  If you have a stacked farm then the trade is easier to handle, but if you don't then you are mortgaging part of your future to get a very good starter, but he may only go five innings. 

Right, it's an oversimplification. I would like to think Billy called some contenders - maybe he completely struck out and nobody even returned his calls. But regardless, the entire structure of the deal seems to be about reducing anyone's possible leverage. Deal with a non-contender, take on someone else's baggage, give up an extra prospect, get a guy on the DL. It's like both GMs were worried their bosses (or fans) would be mad. 

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5 minutes ago, Jobu said:

Right, it's an oversimplification. I would like to think Billy called some contenders - maybe he completely struck out and nobody even returned his calls. But regardless, the entire structure of the deal seems to be about reducing anyone's possible leverage. Deal with a non-contender, take on someone else's baggage, give up an extra prospect, get a guy on the DL. It's like both GMs were worried their bosses (or fans) would be mad. 

We don't have to go back too far to see the results of taking someone's safe prospects. How do you think the Padres are feeling about getting Alvarez, Lindsey, Morris, and Rondon in the Street trade? Whether he's right to believe in Meyer is yet to be determined but at least he went after someone he thought could be good and could be good soon. Nobody here really wants to become the A's South and just admire all the prospects our esteemed GM has stockpiled on minor league affiliates. Do we?

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1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

Meyers shoulder issue is no different than Skaggs ... it's being reported as tendinitis. 

Angels did their homework and went over his medicals with a 'fine tooth comb'. 

I'd be a lot happpier if they had gone over them with a Flowbee.

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1 minute ago, arch stanton said:

We don't have to go back too far to see the results of taking someone's safe prospects. How do you think the Padres are feeling about getting Alvarez, Lindsey, Morris, and Rondon in the Street trade? Whether he's right to believe in Meyer is yet to be determined but at least he went after someone he thought could be good and could be good soon. Nobody here really wants to become the A's South and just admire all the prospects our esteemed GM has stockpiled on minor league affiliates. Do we?

I'd argue that with the farm system the Angels have, there may be some virtue in stockpiling. 

And I'm fine with risk, although I think it's being downplayed here. My issues are: 1) The system has become the way it has, in some part, because of talent evaluation. What's changed from the team that's been throwing sh*t at the left field wall for the last few years and not getting anything to stick? 2) All the other crap in the deal that mitigates the reward. If they trade Santiago for a A+/AA guy and he busts, well, at least the Angels save Hector's $8M salary for next year (which could be meaningful for them up against the tax threshold) and they get to keep the AA/AAA prospect they gave up. I'd like to think even an average GM could reallocate the $8M to a better pitching solution than Ricky Nolasco.

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18 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Angel Miranda. That's who the Angels could have gotten. 

 

I think many of you are simply overrating Santiago. 20 scouts were there on Saturday and watched him throw 119 pitches in 5 innings. 

If you had a guy who was a safe bet to be better than that, even in a year or two, why would you trade him for Santiago?

you wouldn't.  which is why we shouldn't be trying to get that type of guy.  because we are always chasing next year or maybe the year after.  At least the immediate future.  

don't get me wrong, I want them to be good while Trout is still here, but finish the job.  

If your philosophy is to play for now, then do what it takes.  Don't go out and move what little org currency you have for guys like Escobar who are short term or Meyer who will be 32 in his last year of arb if he gets that far.  Don't go out and spend your best prospects on Simmons for 5 years unless you go all the way.  

If everyone were healthy this year, can you imagine how frustrating it would be trying to make a run for the division and having our pen try to not lose games?  Or watching them put in the players they have in LF?  Or to have who we have at 2b (lower priority on the upgrade list but still an obvious area for improvement)? 

The Angels have put themselves into a position of constant compromise. Having to decide between the 27 year old farm hand who is safe vs. the high risk 26yo former top prospect.  

We got a buyer's deal in a seller's market for Hector because we won't poop or get off the pot. 

Do you think the long term viability of this frachise is going to be built on a foundation of using your limited assets to obtain a 26yo former top prospect with high upside and shoulder issues?  

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16 minutes ago, Jobu said:

I'd argue that with the farm system the Angels have, there may be some virtue in stockpiling. 

And I'm fine with risk, although I think it's being downplayed here. My issues are: 1) The system has become the way it has, in some part, because of talent evaluation. What's changed from the team that's been throwing sh*t at the left field wall for the last few years and not getting anything to stick? 2) All the other crap in the deal that mitigates the reward. If they trade Santiago for a A+/AA guy and he busts, well, at least the Angels save Hector's $8M salary for next year (which could be meaningful for them up against the tax threshold) and they get to keep the AA/AAA prospect they gave up. I'd like to think even an average GM could reallocate the $8M to a better pitching solution than Ricky Nolasco.

Such as? And if Meyer is a starter next year, which they believe he can be, it's 2 starters for $8.5 mil.

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10 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I also get that a lot of you look at Meyer and see his age and his injury and stats and think he has no chance. 

I have never laid eyes on the guy myself. 

But in my conversation with Angels people today, I can tell you they have been watching the guy for a long time and looked at his MRI (he had the same thing Skaggs had in May and June) and they all wanted him. 

They may be wrong but their opinion is far more well informed than yours or mine. 

Well informed opinions on AW is not what we're used to... oh my.

I like the trade cause watching Hector pitch gave me headaches and a kid like Meyer with a fastball over 88 works for me. Enough already, I grew up in the Ryan era and I'm spoiled.

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3 hours ago, Torridd said:

I think this is worse than the Wells trade because you're taking a gamble on a guy with an injury history. Wells had a history and was healthy. I think more of us hate this trade especially since Santiago has been successful, an All-star to boot.

Hector, the half season all-star.

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The trade has genius written all over it IMHO. Even if Meyers is a bust ... no harm no foul. I wasn't interested in trading Santiago for another younger version of himself and no starter to replace him now.

Eppler and his staff have been a breath of fresh air since the Dipoto departure. 

It is what it is ... Angels future looks bright!

 

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