The Official Los Angeles Angels 2017 Minor League Statlines & Prospects thread

[Angelsjunky]

Some observations on Adell, Nonie, and Suarez in AZL:

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/8/7/16107756/notes-from-the-arizona-rookie-league-early-august-edition

What was most striking to me is how different his take on Nonie was than @Scotty@AW's, re: bat speed - he says he looks stiff and slow at the plate. On the other hand, the defense is great...maybe Nonie sticks at SS and replaces Simmons?

[Angelsjunky]

Not a huge Dee Gordon fan. The speed is nice, but he doesn't walk and has no power, so is totally dependent upon BA. If he has a down year with BA, like last year, he becomes a mediocrity. He's basically Ben Revere at 2B with more speed.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Not a huge Dee Gordon fan. The speed is nice, but he doesn't walk and has no power, so is totally dependent upon BA. If he has a down year with BA, like last year, he becomes a mediocrity. He's basically Ben Revere at 2B with more speed.

pass on Dee Gordon.  

pass on Hosmer 

[Angel Oracle]

One thing is for sure.   Either a 2B or 3B is needing to be signed.   

Maybe also that a mid-rotation starting pitcher is needing to be signed?

[totdprods]

Good to see Puello, Scribner, and Cowart all getting some playing time. Hopefully Fontana, Gurka, Guerra, Smith, Paredes, and maybe one of the Lamb/Banuelos duo get a chance in September too.

[Dave Saltzer]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Not a huge Dee Gordon fan. The speed is nice, but he doesn't walk and has no power, so is totally dependent upon BA. If he has a down year with BA, like last year, he becomes a mediocrity. He's basically Ben Revere at 2B with more speed.

I'd be more willing to trade for Gordon and keeping Cowart at 3B over signing Moustakis, losing our 2nd round pick and international money, and still having money to improve elsewhere on the team. At least right now, that's how I'm leaning. 

[ettin]

15 hours ago, Dave Saltzer said:

With all this talk about wanting Moustakis, I would be interested in hearing from those in favor of signing him if they really want him if he costs us our 1st round pick. I truly doubt that the Royals won't offer him a qualifying offer, so, with our record, we'd give up our 1st round pick. I'm on the fence on this one right now, but leaning against it. So, I'm interested in hearing from those in favor of it if they would do so if it meant losing our top pick. 

There are other comparable 3B that we could trade for so to me he is not a do or die deal and I'd rather allocate the money somewhere else personally. However he isn't a horrible signing by any means just not the ideal choice for me.

Oh and I don't particularly like the idea of losing a 1st round pick.

Edited August 9, 2017 by ettin

[Second Base]

4 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Some observations on Adell, Nonie, and Suarez in AZL:

https://www.minorleagueball.com/2017/8/7/16107756/notes-from-the-arizona-rookie-league-early-august-edition

What was most striking to me is how different his take on Nonie was than @Scotty@AW's, re: bat speed - he says he looks stiff and slow at the plate. On the other hand, the defense is great...maybe Nonie sticks at SS and replaces Simmons?

Yeah that's pretty much he exact opposite of what I've read and observed with Nonie.  Williams bulked up big time over the last offseason, which was evident in Spring Training.  His defense is pretty much on par with what I know of Williams.  One night, he looks spectacular at shortstop, the next, he looks like a move to 2B, 3B or the OF is much needed.  Clearly this guy saw him on a good night.  Just based off his body type alone, I think you're looking at a future third baseman.  Nonie will probably stay at SS until AA though.  As for the bat speed, yeah I watched those videos and he didn't look good.  I've seen other videos and he looked great.

One thing I will say is that he's shortened up his swing big time.  Not even close to the same swing I saw last year.  Maybe he's still learning how to work with this newer swing.  It's encouraging though.  Randal Grichuk had a similar experience, though his swing wasn't shortened until he made it to the Cal League. 

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Scotty@AW said:

Yeah that's pretty much he exact opposite of what I've read and observed with Nonie.  Williams bulked up big time over the last offseason, which was evident in Spring Training.  His defense is pretty much on par with what I know of Williams.  One night, he looks spectacular at shortstop, the next, he looks like a move to 2B, 3B or the OF is much needed.  Clearly this guy saw him on a good night.  Just based off his body type alone, I think you're looking at a future third baseman.  Nonie will probably stay at SS until AA though.  As for the bat speed, yeah I watched those videos and he didn't look good.  I've seen other videos and he looked great.

One thing I will say is that he's shortened up his swing big time.  Not even close to the same swing I saw last year.  Maybe he's still learning how to work with this newer swing.  It's encouraging though.  Randal Grichuk had a similar experience, though his swing wasn't shortened until he made it to the Cal League. 

my two bit bullshit analysis of Nonie's swing is that the bat speed is good but his timing is horrible.  Upper and lower half look completely disconnected.  Like a guy with a totally new swing.  

[Inside Pitch]

11 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

my two bit bullshit analysis of Nonie's swing is that the bat speed is good but his timing is horrible.  Upper and lower half look completely disconnected.  Like a guy with a totally new swing.  

Agreed -- Nonie in human Play-doh right now....  The Angels are trying to shape him into what they want him to be.

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Agreed -- Nonie in human Play-doh right now....  The Angels are trying to shape him into what they want him to be.

Is this going to turn into another Cowart situation....screwing up 2-3 years of development by changing a swing that shouldn't have been changed to start with?

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Is this going to turn into another Cowart situation....screwing up 2-3 years of development by changing a swing that shouldn't have been changed to start with?

Different animals...   You never know how a player will take to coaching,  but Nonie was billed as extremely raw -- so, this is kind of expected.  The guy is a lottery pick type.

Right now Nonie is moving at the same pace Ryan Vega did..  At worst he's 20 years old and in Orem next season.  

[eaterfan]

20 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

1. I hear your point, but you exaggerate, or at least it is not that black or white. Moose would improve the offense. And I don't think any player (except possibly Trout) would transform a crappy offense into a good one.

2. Agreed, as I said above.

3. Again, you exaggerate. Moose has been pretty good for three years now, it is just that he missed most of last year with injury. But his wRC+ since 2015 has been 122, 110, 120. I think it is safe to assume that he's at least a 110-120 wRC+ guy, which would make him the 2nd or 3rd best hitter on the team.

4. He isn't quite old either. A five-year deal would be age 29-33. And of course your complaint is true of almost any free agent, so by that logic the Angels should never sign players to long term deals. To be honest, I don't disagree with that - if I were GM, I would try to extend the best young players on the team, then fill out the roster with journeymen types and shorter deals. I would never, or at least very very rarely, sign a mega-deal of 5+ years and nine figures. But my point is, your complaint holds true for 99% of 5+ year deals.

5. So his 40-45 HR this year would be 30-35 next year with the Angels. That's not so bad. And he's always had power and was expected to turn into a 30+ guy. I think his HR this year are a combination of the ball and his power stroke coming together.

Anyhow, I'm not in love with Moose but I think he is one of the free agents that would best address the team's needs. I'd be OK rolling the dice on foregoing any major signing and going with a combination of homegrown talent and savvy one-year deals or trades, but if we're looking at available free agents, the Angels could do worse than Moose.

If I were Eppler I'd offer him 5/$90MM and leave it on the table. He'll probably get 6/$120MM from someone, but maybe he really wants to be an Angel enough to forego the extra dollars.

I wouldn't even do 5/90. I agree with your post but would add the following.

This team is more than one bat away. This team has literally 2 pieces you can count on. Trout and Simmons. I'll even throw Calhoun in the mix to make it 3. Each of these guys is locked up for 3 more years. We don't have any veteran players exiting their prime or leaving for FA who shortens our window. The goal of the team should be do what it takes to lock Trout up long term. That means being competitive in 3 years, having a good long term Outlook, and having the payroll flexibility to sign him to a big money deal. 

This team also has some talent in the lower minor leagues so help may be in the way in 2-3 years.

Going back to my point about being more than one bat away and having only 2-3 cornerstone pieces. Every other player/position is a question mark. Why not wait in committing to a long term plan until we have more information? Maybe Cowart works out and Calhoun and some of our minor leagues flame it and we need outfield help in 2 years not a 3b. Maybe several of our injured cheap young pitching just isn't very good and we need to spend money there. I'd rather save the money for when we have better information on our position of need. It's not like there aren't 2-3 WAR players available every year. It's not like we are pigeon holed into only needing a 3B. Sign the Mike Moustakas type of 2018 or 2019.

2. I like the way the team has drafted. Keep the picks and the signing pool money.

[Docwaukee]

46 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Agreed -- Nonie in human Play-doh right now....  The Angels are trying to shape him into what they want him to be.

let's hope he's malleable.  or at least they don't try to shape too much.  sometimes you gotta let it be what it is for a bit in order to figure out what it should be.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

let's hope he's malleable.  or at least they don't try to shape too much.  sometimes you gotta let it be what it is for a bit in order to figure out what it should be.  

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, that they know what they are doing..   But, FWIW..   I hate seeing a team take a guy and then try to completely remake him.  

He definitely looks stiff - like he's trying to do things .vs them coming to him naturally.   

[Angelsjunky]

6 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

One thing is for sure.   Either a 2B or 3B is needing to be signed.   

Maybe also that a mid-rotation starting pitcher is needing to be signed?

I think it really depends upon the in-house pitchers, particularly Richards, Skaggs, Heaney, Tropeano, and Shoemaker. All five are at least capable of being mid-rotation pitchers...if healthy. Meyer as well. Bridwell and Ramirez seem more like #4-5 types, as do Scribner, Smith, and Long.

But my point is, if even three of those five are healthy and ready to go, the Angels have almost a full rotation of mid-rotation guys, with a handful of #4-5 types to fill in the gap. The only type of pitcher that would significantly improve the rotation is a #1-2 type like Darvish or, theoretically, Otani.

Now if Skaggs struggles, Richards doesn't come back, and only one or two of the others comes back healthy, then a mid-rotation signing might be in order.

[stormngt]

20 hours ago, Dave Saltzer said:

With all this talk about wanting Moustakis, I would be interested in hearing from those in favor of signing him if they really want him if he costs us our 1st round pick. I truly doubt that the Royals won't offer him a qualifying offer, so, with our record, we'd give up our 1st round pick. I'm on the fence on this one right now, but leaning against it. So, I'm interested in hearing from those in favor of it if they would do so if it meant losing our top pick. 

I thought the loss of a pick was eliminated in the latest cba.  Was I wrong?

[stormngt]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I think it really depends upon the in-house pitchers, particularly Richards, Skaggs, Heaney, Tropeano, and Shoemaker. All five are at least capable of being mid-rotation pitchers...if healthy. Meyer as well. Bridwell and Ramirez seem more like #4-5 types, as do Scribner, Smith, and Long.

But my point is, if even three of those five are healthy and ready to go, the Angels have almost a full rotation of mid-rotation guys, with a handful of #4-5 types to fill in the gap. The only type of pitcher that would significantly improve the rotation is a #1-2 type like Darvish or, theoretically, Otani.

Now if Skaggs struggles, Richards doesn't come back, and only one or two of the others comes back healthy, then a mid-rotation signing might be in order.

I don't know why Shoemaker has mid rotation potential.  He had one good year and a good second half.

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

I don't know why Shoemaker has mid rotation potential.  He had one good year and a good second half.

Well, you partially answered your own question. How many seasons does Shoe have? 86 career starts, so less than three full season's worth. By my memory, for about half of that he was a #2 and the other half a #4, so it averages out to about a #3. Even if he doesn't find his better form, he's still a solid #4, and we could define "mid-rotation" as a lesser #2 to better #4, which he should be able to manage.

[Second Base]

It's funny because it's all semantics really. I remember asking someone that was in the Angels front office during the Dipoto regime about how a certain pitcher projected. He kinda laughed and said "the best five start, no one that works on baseball cares about a number. It's something fans use to ran pitchers."

That number can change year to year too. Hardly anyone believes Rick Porcello is an ace but he sure was last year.

I'm assuming most other organizations are similar, so I doubt the Angels have made any such designation. If they think he's one of their five best, he'll start.

[ettin]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Well, you partially answered your own question. How many seasons does Shoe have? 86 career starts, so less than three full season's worth. By my memory, for about half of that he was a #2 and the other half a #4, so it averages out to about a #3. Even if he doesn't find his better form, he's still a solid #4, and we could define "mid-rotation" as a lesser #2 to better #4, which he should be able to manage.

I agree with AJ here, there have been stretches of time (multiple games in a row) where he has acted like a good #2 starter. Really hinges on his splitter staying consistent. In that first season there was a stretch where he faced off against other teams top aces and matched them well. He has the ability but injuries have derailed him. He is not going anywhere in 2018 except right into our rotation.

[totdprods]

Wednesday, August 9th, 2017:
Salt Lake (59-58) lost 3-6 to Oklahoma City
Michael Hermosillo: 1-4, BB, 2 K, SB (2)
Carlos Perez: 2-5, R, HR (4), 2 RBI, BB, K
John Lamb: 6 IP, 6 H, ER, BB, 4 K
Deolis Guerra: 1 IP, H K
Jason Gurka: 2 IP, 4 H, 3 ER, BB, 2 K, HR

Inland Empire (53-63) lost 5-6 to Lake Elsinore (55-61)
Jahmai Jones: 3-4, R, 2B, RBI - at IE (19 G, 80 AB) .338/.391/.475/.866, 7 XBH, 5 BB, 19 K
Jared Walsh: 3-4, R, 2 2B, K, E (6) - at IE (46 G, 181 AB) .326/.387/.530/.917, 24 XBH, 16 BB, 46 K
Derek Jenkins (2nd game with IE): 3-4, R
Luis Pena: 6 IP, 6 H, 3 ER, 3 BB, 7 K 
Mike Kaelin: 2 IP, H, 3 K

Orem (33-12) vs. Helena (17-28) rained out

AZL Angels (21-16) lost 2-4 to AZL Padres 2 (20-16)
Zane Gurwitz: 2-4, R, 3B, BB - hitting an even .500 through 26 AB at AZL after demotion from Burlington
Jordon Adell: 0-4, RBI, K
Nonie Williams: 2-4, BB, E (6), SB (10) - hitting .268 in last 10 games, .321/.355/.321 in August
Hector Yan: 0 IP, H, 4 R, 3 ER, 2 BB
Jason Alexander: 5 IP, 2 H, 3 K
Max Herrmann: 3 IP, H, BB, 2 K

DSL Angels (25-28)  lost 10-11 to DSL Twins (40-16)
Jose Quezada (CF): 2-6, R, SB (4)
Miguel de la Cruz (LF): 0-2, 2 R, 3 BB, K
Cristian Gomez (RF): 3-4, 2 R, 2B, 2 RBI, SB (8)
Julio de la Cruz (3B): 3-5, 2 R, 3B (5), RBI, K 
Andersson Espinal: 2 IP, 7 H, 6 ER, 3 K, HR

[Angel Oracle]

10 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

It's funny because it's all semantics really. I remember asking someone that was in the Angels front office during the Dipoto regime about how a certain pitcher projected. He kinda laughed and said "the best five start, no one that works on baseball cares about a number. It's something fans use to ran pitchers."

That number can change year to year too. Hardly anyone believes Rick Porcello is an ace but he sure was last year.

I'm assuming most other organizations are similar, so I doubt the Angels have made any such designation. If they think he's one of their five best, he'll start.

Porcello has come back to his mean with a thud.  6-14 with a mid 4.00s ERA

[Angel Oracle]

What the 411 on Jared Walsh?

Big numbers in high-A ball

[zenmaster]

Some info from MLB.com regarding the Angels farm. We weren't mention in their top 15 obviously, so a fan asked:

 

Quote

Has an angels fan, Do u think players who got moved to double A like Matt thaiss and Taylor ward can be future players one day?

- AngelsFan06 (@AngelsHaloFan) August 9, 2017

 

We don't get a ton of questions about the Angels' farm system. That's not a big surprise, as most would put them close to the bottom of any full-system rankings. But you know what? There are some interesting things cooking here, and not just because Taylor Ward and Matt Thaiss, the club's 2015 and '16 first-round picks, are both performing well in Double-A. More on them in a minute.

The top of the Angels' Top 30 list, which includes Thaiss at No. 3 and Ward at No. 11, now has some very intriguing high-ceiling players. Jo Adell, the 2017 first-rounder, and Jahmai Jones, the '15 second-round pick, are playing well and showing off their considerable tools. Brandon Marsh, the '16 second-rounder, is raking in the Pioneer League. The 2017 Draft also netted the Angels high school outfielder Jacob Pearson, who also has a power-speed combination. On the mound, the organization loves Chris Rodriguez, Futures Gamer Jaime Barria has reached Double-A and '17 draftee Griffin Canning could be a steal. It's still not super deep, but it's much more intriguing than it used to be.

Now as for Thaiss and Ward, it remains to be seen how they fit into this mix. They don't fit the high-ceiling mold of some of the other hitters atop this list, but that doesn't mean they can't be big leaguers. Thaiss is hitting for average and getting on base since his promotion to Double-A, but he also has just five extra-base hits in 101 at-bats in the Southern League, and he'll have to show more pop consistently to be an everyday first baseman in the big leagues. Ward has hit well since he moved up, too, with impressive on-base skills and a little pop in 15 games. There's not as much pressure on his bat if his catching continues to improve. I'm not sure either are true impact players, like guys such as Adell and Jones could be, but they are headed in the right direction.

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/247529032/pipeline-inbox-mlbs-top-10-farm-systems/