The Official Los Angeles Angels 2017 Minor League Statlines & Prospects thread

[ettin]

We often focus too much about power out of the 1B position when in reality what you want is a productive hitter that drives in runs. Whether they are dropping bombs or hitting lots of singles and doubles to get those runs in, it doesn't matter as long as the end result is run production. That is why I'd be happy with Thaiss running a 115 wRC+ or more in the Majors despite a potential lack of serious power.

[Angel Oracle]

How soon before Bailey can help out an overworked pen in Anaheim?

[totdprods]

49 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I think an optimistic but reasonable future for Thaiss is that he develops into a .290/.370/.460 hitter, who hits 40 doubles and 15-20 HR a year. That's not a star first baseman, but it is still a very good hitter and maybe borderline star. I suppose a more pessimistic outlook is something like .270/.350/.420 with 30 2b and 10-15 HR...still not bad, but not what you want to see from your starting first baseman if you're a playoff club.

If he arrives quick enough, some of our production from CF and SS offsets it a bit too.
Cowart is promising so far this season, but we'll really need some legit production from 3B or LF in coming years to really make things work.

[Chuck]

I'm really stoked at how well Thaiss, Ward and Jones have played since their promotions. 

Lots to be excited for. Hermosillo had a solid game last night too in AAA. 

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, ettin said:

We often focus too much about power out of the 1B position when in reality what you want is a productive hitter that drives in runs. Whether they are dropping bombs or hitting lots of singles and doubles to get those runs in, it doesn't matter as long as the end result is run production. That is why I'd be happy with Thaiss running a 115 wRC+ or more in the Majors despite a potential lack of serious power.

I think if we are speaking plainly right now, this team needs Matt Thaiss, preferably soon. Aside from Trout, Simmons and Cowart, no one is hitting the ball. And Cowart's track record suggests that we shouldn't expect his production to continue at this rate.

So we need 3-4 more guys than can hit just to have an offense that can win ball games. The pitching staff is coming back healthy next year and 2018-2020 will be the Angels current window of contention before the big wave of prospects are scheduled to arrive (Jones, Marsh, Adell, Pearson, Rodriguez, Duensing). 

We have some prospects that will tie us over until then (Hermosillo, Barria, Long, Canning, Fletcher), but inevitably we'll need to dive into free agency to build a winner again.

If we figure that 1B, 3B and LF are our main areas of needed improvement, you're looking at spending 40 million a year easy in free agency. The Angels are just now beginning to get out from under Dipoto's investments, and 40 million would blow it, and on what, Mike Moustakas and a couple other 30 years olds?

So the Angels need Thaiss to be an effective hitter at the major league level by the end of next year basically. Not only so they can compete, but also for the sake of their financial stability. If they miss on Thaiss, they could be hurting at a time they should be thriving.

[totdprods]

23 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

So we need 3-4 more guys than can hit just to have an offense that can win ball games. The pitching staff is coming back healthy next year and 2018-2020 will be the Angels current window of contention before the big wave of prospects are scheduled to arrive (Jones, Marsh, Adell, Pearson, Rodriguez, Duensing). 

We have some prospects that will tie us over until then (Hermosillo, Barria, Long, Canning, Fletcher), but inevitably we'll need to dive into free agency to build a winner again.

If we figure that 1B, 3B and LF are our main areas of needed improvement, you're looking at spending 40 million easy in free agency. The Angels are just now getting out from under Dipoto's mistakes, and 40 million would blow it, and on what, Mike Moustakas and a couple other 30 years olds?

Offensively, 2018 will definitely be a big year for Thaiss, Hermosillo, Fletcher, and maybe Ward. I hope Thaiss starts getting a little bit of playing time in LF just to give him a little more versatility and an another path to get some time in the bigs. 

Our offense obviously needs some help though. I'd like to see Eppler make one significant investment and once again pepper the line-up with one-year stopgaps for LF and IF.  I really like Carlos Santana as he's steady as all can be, and honestly if I were GM I think I'd still go after him first, but between Cron, Pujols, Thaiss, Valbuena, Marte (and usually a heaping of cheaply avail bats around the league) first base should be adequately covered offensively. Should. |

I think there are several LF options that can be had on one-year deals who can be productive enough (Jay, Cabrera, even Revere, Granderson, CarGo {ugh}, Dyson, Jackson, Markakis) and then be  easily squeezed out if Hermosillo starts pushing. 

Third base is devoid of anything in the entire system right now, so Moustakas really does make a lot of sense. Cowart could slide back over of course, especially if Fletcher steps forward offensively, but I don't know if I want to put that much hope on our '18 offense on Cowart and Fletcher. That could really backfire. So I'd try and bring a cheap vet IF into the fold on a one/two year deal - a Lowrie, Nunez, Forsythe type.
 

[Angelsjunky]

Those four players--Hermosillo, Fletcher, Thaiss, and Ward--should all get their first taste of the majors no later than next year, perhaps even as September call-ups this year for one or two of them (Herm, Fletch). My main concern about bringing in free agents to fill those positions is if it blocks any homegrown prospects from getting a chance. I don't think Fletcher, for instance, will be more than a league average 2B, but an average 2B for minimum salary is better than an average 2B for $5-15MM a year, and best of all Fletch is already a "bird in hand." Now it may be that none of those four will be capable of being league average for another year or two, but at the least I like the idea that there's a route to major league playing time.

This also points to why Moustakas makes a lot of sense. The Angels can fill 1B, 2B, and LF from within with cheap players who will be at least average regulars, at least within the next year. Unless Fletcher surprises and pushes Cowart to 3B, there's no one in the high minors that can really take over 3B and do the same. Moustakas would give them 5+ years of above average production, although for a premium price (~$20MM a year).  But the key is, he doesn't block any prospects with high ceiling potential; the only possible player that could be that at 3B is Nonie Williams, who is 4-5 years away.

 

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Those four players--Hermosillo, Fletcher, Thaiss, and Ward--should all get their first taste of the majors no later than next year, perhaps even as September call-ups this year for one or two of them (Herm, Fletch). My main concern about bringing in free agents to fill those positions is if it blocks any homegrown prospects from getting a chance. I don't think Fletcher, for instance, will be more than a league average 2B, but an average 2B for minimum salary is better than an average 2B for $5-15MM a year, and best of all Fletch is already a "bird in hand." Now it may be that none of those four will be capable of being league average for another year or two, but at the least I like the idea that there's a route to major league playing time.

Yeah that's why I'm thinking it isn't imperative we spend big across the board this offseason. Get one big FA bat just to inject some offense into the mix. I think it would be a mistake (and overall unlikely) to go into '18 expecting Hermosillo, Fletcher, Thaiss, Ward, and even Cowart as key offensive pieces though. I can totally see Eppler filling out the lineup with a peppering of one-year stopgaps again, and I would be okay with that. 

3B is really the only position where we wouldn't be clearly blocking a prospect so Moustakas does make sense. I imagine we see Herm battle for 4th OF in ST and Fletcher for UT IF, but ultimately lose out and get steady reps in SLC with a cheap vet ahead of them, and let them be the first up when something comes up.

[Chuck]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Yeah that's why I'm thinking it isn't imperative we spend big across the board this offseason. Get one big FA bat just to inject some offense into the mix. I think it would be a mistake (and overall unlikely) to go into '18 expecting Hermosillo, Fletcher, Thaiss, Ward, and even Cowart as key offensive pieces though. I can totally see Eppler filling out the lineup with a peppering of one-year stopgaps again, and I would be okay with that. 

3B is really the only position where we wouldn't be clearly blocking a prospect so Moustakas does make sense. I imagine we see Herm battle for 4th OF in ST and Fletcher for UT IF, but ultimately lose out and get steady reps in SLC with a cheap vet ahead of them, and let them be the first up when something comes up.

I'd be happy with just signing Moustakas honestly. 

One of Puello, Hermosillo and possibly bringing back Maybin or Revere on the cheap for LF. Cowart to 2B, Mous at 3B and give Cron one more season at 1B or until Thaiss is ready, which could be sooner than later. 

You then get three left-handed bats in the lineup in Cowart, Moustakas and Thaiss in 2019.

[Angelsjunky]

Yes, agreed on all accounts. I actually like the idea of Puello as the 4th outfielder, with Hermosillo getting regular playing time in AAA. Maybe offer Maybin a 1-2 year contract, and if Herm looks really good in the first couple months, Maybin could theoretically be traded.

Forrest Allday--aside from having a fun name--is an intriguing 4th outfielder option. Nice speed/walk combo.

[totdprods]

20 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Yes, agreed on all accounts. I actually like the idea of Puello as the 4th outfielder, with Hermosillo getting regular playing time in AAA. Maybe offer Maybin a 1-2 year contract, and if Herm looks really good in the first couple months, Maybin could theoretically be traded.

Forrest Allday--aside from having a fun name--is an intriguing 4th outfielder option. Nice speed/walk combo.

I hope Allday and Puello are retained for '18 AAA depth, in place of EYJr and Robinson. 

@Chuckster70, that's putting an awful lot of faith on the same players that let us down this year. 

I like what Eppler has tried by acquiring vet rentals. Obviously we've had some bad luck with injuries and lack of production from them, and the rental market bottomed out this year, but they're still expendable trade bait throughout the year and we're still in a position where Jesus Castillo-type returns are good for our farm.

[NachoPop]

With Maldonado's bat slowing down a bit of late, how long until Perez comes back up and helps take on some of the workload?

[Second Base]

My biggest issue with Moustakas is five fold.

1. He's a drop in the bucket. Adding his bat will not be the difference between a crappy offense and a good offense.

2. OBP. Not disciplined at all and once he gets older and his bat speed slows down, he'll have nothing to fall back in, and be utterly useless.

3. His track record isn't the best. If I had to use a word to characterize Moustakas, it would be mediocre. Why spend 100 million on a mediocre player? 

4. He isn't young anymore. The back end of that deal will not work out.

5. Yeah, Moustakas is hitting for power this year, a year in which everyone avdvtheir mother is hitting for power because MLB is stupid and messed with the ball. It makes his sudden power upswing not only suspect, but not worth anything.

I wouldn't be opposed to Moustakas if the Angels were one bat away and were desperate for a 3B. As it stands, the Angels are 3-4 bats away and Moustakas just isn't that good of a player to prioritize the way we are on this board.

Now if it's Moustakas at 3B, JD Martinez in LF, Adrian Gonzalez at 1B and something better than Pujols at DH....then we'd be ok. But Moose alone does nothing but waste money.

[Angelsjunky]

15 minutes ago, Scotty@AW said:

My biggest issue with Moustakas is five fold.

1. He's a drop in the bucket. Adding his bat will not be the difference between a crappy offense and a good offense.

2. OBP. Not disciplined at all and once he gets older and his bat speed slows down, he'll have nothing to fall back in, and be utterly useless.

3. His track record isn't the best. If I had to use a word to characterize Moustakas, it would be mediocre. Why spend 100 million on a mediocre player? 

4. He isn't young anymore. The back end of that deal will not work out.

5. Yeah, Moustakas is hitting for power this year, a year in which everyone avdvtheir mother is hitting for power because MLB is stupid and messed with the ball. It makes his sudden power upswing not only suspect, but not worth anything.

I wouldn't be opposed to Moustakas if the Angels were one bat away and were desperate for a 3B. As it stands, the Angels are 3-4 bats away and Moustakas just isn't that good of a player to prioritize the way we are on this board.

Now if it's Moustakas at 3B, JD Martinez in LF, Adrian Gonzalez at 1B and something better than Pujols at DH....then we'd be ok. But Moose alone does nothing but waste money.

1. I hear your point, but you exaggerate, or at least it is not that black or white. Moose would improve the offense. And I don't think any player (except possibly Trout) would transform a crappy offense into a good one.

2. Agreed, as I said above.

3. Again, you exaggerate. Moose has been pretty good for three years now, it is just that he missed most of last year with injury. But his wRC+ since 2015 has been 122, 110, 120. I think it is safe to assume that he's at least a 110-120 wRC+ guy, which would make him the 2nd or 3rd best hitter on the team.

4. He isn't quite old either. A five-year deal would be age 29-33. And of course your complaint is true of almost any free agent, so by that logic the Angels should never sign players to long term deals. To be honest, I don't disagree with that - if I were GM, I would try to extend the best young players on the team, then fill out the roster with journeymen types and shorter deals. I would never, or at least very very rarely, sign a mega-deal of 5+ years and nine figures. But my point is, your complaint holds true for 99% of 5+ year deals.

5. So his 40-45 HR this year would be 30-35 next year with the Angels. That's not so bad. And he's always had power and was expected to turn into a 30+ guy. I think his HR this year are a combination of the ball and his power stroke coming together.

Anyhow, I'm not in love with Moose but I think he is one of the free agents that would best address the team's needs. I'd be OK rolling the dice on foregoing any major signing and going with a combination of homegrown talent and savvy one-year deals or trades, but if we're looking at available free agents, the Angels could do worse than Moose.

If I were Eppler I'd offer him 5/$90MM and leave it on the table. He'll probably get 6/$120MM from someone, but maybe he really wants to be an Angel enough to forego the extra dollars.

[Docwaukee]

2 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

1. I hear your point, but you exaggerate, or at least it is not that black or white. Moose would improve the offense. And I don't think any player (except possibly Trout) would transform a crappy offense into a good one.

2. Agreed, as I said above.

3. Again, you exaggerate. Moose has been pretty good for three years now, it is just that he missed most of last year with injury. But his wRC+ since 2015 has been 122, 110, 120. I think it is safe to assume that he's at least a 110-120 wRC+ guy, which would make him the 2nd or 3rd best hitter on the team.

4. He isn't quite old either. A five-year deal would be age 29-33. And of course your complaint is true of almost any free agent, so by that logic the Angels should never sign players to long term deals. To be honest, I don't disagree with that - if I were GM, I would try to extend the best young players on the team, then fill out the roster with journeymen types and shorter deals. I would never, or at least very very rarely, sign a mega-deal of 5+ years and nine figures. But my point is, your complaint holds true for 99% of 5+ year deals.

5. So his 40-45 HR this year would be 30-35 next year with the Angels. That's not so bad. And he's always had power and was expected to turn into a 30+ guy. I think his HR this year are a combination of the ball and his power stroke coming together.

Anyhow, I'm not in love with Moose but I think he is one of the free agents that would best address the team's needs. I'd be OK rolling the dice on foregoing any major signing and going with a combination of homegrown talent and savvy one-year deals or trades, but if we're looking at available free agents, the Angels could do worse than Moose.

If I were Eppler I'd offer him 5/$90MM and leave it on the table. He'll probably get 6/$120MM from someone, but maybe he really wants to be an Angel enough to forego the extra dollars.

I like Mous but I agree he's not worth 120mil.   I go back and forth on whether he'd be a nice add even if we got him for 90mil.  I don't like the bb rate.  I don't like the inconsistency.  He's hr happy this year and he's doing it at the expense of plate discipline.  As the power tails off, I hope the BB's come back, but it's certainly a risk.  Statistically, his D has shown some cracks this year.   

Do we rely on Valbuena rebounding or Moose living up to a near 9 figure deal?  tough call.  

 

[Second Base]

14 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I like Mous but I agree he's not worth 120mil.   I go back and forth on whether he'd be a nice add even if we got him for 90mil.  I don't like the bb rate.  I don't like the inconsistency.  He's hr happy this year and he's doing it at the expense of plate discipline.  As the power tails off, I hope the BB's come back, but it's certainly a risk.  Statistically, his D has shown some cracks this year.   

Do we rely on Valbuena rebounding or Moose living up to a near 9 figure deal?  tough call.  

 

For me, it's an easy call. I'd rather have Cowart be the best defensive 3B in MLB than simply passable at 2B. Complete waste of talent. Trade for Gordon to play 2B. It improves the defense at two different positions and gets us the leadoff hitter we need. 

[Docwaukee]

Looking through our minor league ranks, we've got a decent stratification of prospects now with some aggressive promotions.  

Even in a small sample, it's nice to see Taylor Ward doing well.  And it's not smoke and mirrors.  11 bb and 2k in his last 10 games.  

[Dave Saltzer]

With all this talk about wanting Moustakis, I would be interested in hearing from those in favor of signing him if they really want him if he costs us our 1st round pick. I truly doubt that the Royals won't offer him a qualifying offer, so, with our record, we'd give up our 1st round pick. I'm on the fence on this one right now, but leaning against it. So, I'm interested in hearing from those in favor of it if they would do so if it meant losing our top pick. 

[Angelsjunky]

I forgot about that, Dave. I'm kind of similar to Doc in that I go back and forth; typically I tend to not want the big free agent signings unless they're something special (like Pujols, *cough*), but would love to see a big power bat at 3B. But the draft pick loss kind of pushes me over the edge to "say no to Moose."

In the end, the franchise might be best served by trying to make savvy modest moves and hope for improvement from underachieving hitters (especially Cron and Calhoun) and/or a big step forward from a Thaiss or Herm, coupled with improved pitching could see the Angels at least compete for the wildcard.

Actually, here's a thought. The Astros are so good that the Angels would need to hugely improve to compete for the division, which is hard to see without spending enormously--Martinez AND Darvish AND Moose, etc. So assuming they won't do that, they're faced with trying to compete for the wildcard again, so maybe it would be better to take a modest approach to free agents, still try to be competitive, but focus on 2019-20 and beyond, when the team could theoretically be a serious contender again.

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, Dave Saltzer said:

With all this talk about wanting Moustakis, I would be interested in hearing from those in favor of signing him if they really want him if he costs us our 1st round pick. I truly doubt that the Royals won't offer him a qualifying offer, so, with our record, we'd give up our 1st round pick. I'm on the fence on this one right now, but leaning against it. So, I'm interested in hearing from those in favor of it if they would do so if it meant losing our top pick. 

that's a good point.   I'm with ya.  I really have a hard time with big contracts for guys without really good plate discipline.  Those guys don't age well.  

[ADHB]

14 minutes ago, Dave Saltzer said:

With all this talk about wanting Moustakis, I would be interested in hearing from those in favor of signing him if they really want him if he costs us our 1st round pick. I truly doubt that the Royals won't offer him a qualifying offer, so, with our record, we'd give up our 1st round pick. I'm on the fence on this one right now, but leaning against it. So, I'm interested in hearing from those in favor of it if they would do so if it meant losing our top pick. 

With the new compensation rules put in place by the new CBA, no one gives up their 1st round pick anymore.  I'm not sure what we would give up if we signed a high dollar FA, but it would be no higher than a 2nd round pick.

[arch stanton]

I really think Moustakis would be a huge disappointment. If he goes east he'll kill it in those parks but here he's probably only a minor upgrade on Valbuena

[Dave Saltzer]

4 minutes ago, ADHB said:

With the new compensation rules put in place by the new CBA, no one gives up their 1st round pick anymore.  I'm not sure what we would give up if we signed a high dollar FA, but it would be no higher than a 2nd round pick.

Since we don't pay the luxury tax, we'd give up our 2nd round pick and $500k in international bonus pool money. And, we'd lose the slot money for our 2nd round pick. This year, we would have lost Canning. Or Brandon Marsh. Or James Jones. Still not sold on it. If it were Machado or Arenando, we'll count me in. But the low walk rate really scares me off. 

[totdprods]

Tuesday, August 8th 2017:
Salt Lake (59-57) lost 2-3 to Oklahoma City (61-53)
Michael Hermosillo: 1-3, BB, K
David Fletcher: 0-4
Cesar Puello: 0-4
Rey Navarro: 1-3, R, HR (7), RBI, BB, K 
Nolan Fontana: 2-4, R, 2B, 2 K
Bo Way: 2-2, RBI, BB, CS (7) - in 139 AAA ABs; .295/.331/.324/.655
Adam Hofacket: 2 IP, 2 H, 2 ER, K, HR
Keep an eye on...
Osmer Morales: 5 IP, 5 H, ER, 2 BB, 3 K - in 5 AAA starts, 26 IP, 3.12 ERA, .232 BAA< 1.35 WHIP, 13 BB, 23 K

Mobile (53-61) lost 1-7 to Montgomery (63-52)
Matt Thaiss: 2-4, R - .327/.400/.376/.776 at AA (27 G, 101 AB)
Taylor Ward: 1-1, 3 BB - his AA slash line is now at .347/.500/.469/.969 and on the year (A+/AA), he has drawn 50 walks to 49 strikeouts
Jose Rojas: 1-4
Brennon Lund: 2-4, RBI - AA hasn't slowed him down; 8 hits in first 19 AB, slashing .421/.421/.421/.842
Alex Klonowski: 5 IP, 4 H, 2 ER, BB, 7 K - between AA/AAA, 21 G, 18 GS, 111.1 IP; 4.28 ERA, .257 BAA, 1.22 WHIP

Inland Empire (53-62) won 3-2 vs. Lake Elsinore (54-61)
Jahmai Jones: 1-4, K
Jack Kruger: 1-4, 3B, R, 2 RBI
Keith Grieshaber: 2-3, 2B, RBI, E (6)
Jake Yacinich: 2-3, 3B
Derek Jenkins (A+ debut): 0-3, 2 K
Ryan Clark: 5 IP, 5 H, 2 ER, 2 BB, 4 K, HR

Burlington (47-67) lost 1-2 in 10 innings to Kane County (63-49)
Leonardo Rivas: 2-5, K, SB (3) - first two A-ball hits
Jonah Todd: 1-5, R, K
Andrew Vinson: 5 IP, 2 H, ER, 5 K - solid rebound start

Orem (33-12) won 13-9 over Helena (17-28)
Manuel Guzman: 2-4, 3 R, 2B, 3B, RBI, BB
Ryan Vega: 1-3, R, 2 RBI, 2 BB
David MacKinnon: 3-4, R, 2 2B, 3 RBI, K
Keep an eye on...
Jeremy Beasley: 3 IP, 0 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 5 K - between AZL/Orem, 1.02 ERA in 17.2 IP, .121 BAA, 0.62 WHIP, 4 walks to 22 strikeouts
Luke Lind: 3 IP, H, R, 5 K, HR - between AZL/Orem, 2.29 ERA in 19.2 IP with 33 K - that's a K/9 of 15.1. Oh, and only one walk. 
Kevin Williams: 1-4, 2 R, HR (1), 3 RBI, BB, K, E (1) - 13th Rd., 2017 pick. Two good games to start career!

DSL Angels (25-27) scheduled doubleheader with DSL Cardinals (23-32) - postponed

[Angel Oracle]

If they move Cowart back to 3B, and traded for Gordon (minimal prospects given up by taking on entire salary), it would save some money for the next 3 seasons and create a base running frenzy in 2018 with Trout, Gordon, Simmons, Cowart, and Maybin/Hermosillo.   Just need to get enough power in 2018 from Trout, Ghost Pujols, Cron, Calhoun, Maldonado, and Simmons.

The question then becomes, would you rather have Moustakas at 5-6 years/$18-$20 million per?  

Or Gordon at 3-4 years/$13 million per? 

Or Neil Walker at whatever, despite his injury history the past 2 seasons?