Why the Angels need Heyward more than any other team

[ukyah]

Therein lies our difference in approaching this situation. I believe a hitters performance with RISP in central to determining whether he is a run producer or not.

I'm curious to know, what do you believe makes a run producer if not their ability to drive in runs?

 

 

i'm surprised to hear you say this because you spend so much energy on minor league players and their stats. you must be aware that individual and team statistics with RISP vary from year to year. a player that is incredible one year with RISP is horrible the next. what happens is that after all those at bats over several years, you find out that hitters hit about their same avg with RISP as they do over the course of their entire year.

 

i'm in total agreement with tdawg on this. good hitters, who hit in the MOTO, will have more rbi if the team has a higher obp. it's the same math as wins for a pitcher.

Edited December 5, 2015 by ukyah

[Mark68]

thats very solid. Very, very solid.

Not a huge deal, but if he was "faster", as in like a 40 steal guy id be all over it. I know its not that big of a deal, but a guy like that to lead off (speed, obp, power to the gaps) would be exactly what we need

I think you might be stuck in "old school" thinking. You need a guy that gets on base leading off. He doesn't necessarily have to be a burner. Heyward has enough speed, he stole 23 out of 26 last year, which would have led the team, in both steals and attempts.There aren't THAT many 50 steal guys anymore.

[Mark68]

Are we still using RBIs as a stat? This isn't Rotisserie, this is real life. How many RBIs a player has isn't really up to him. If there's nobody on base, he can only drive himself in with a home run.

 

That is something that was annoying about this team. They were 6th in the AL in homers, but only 12th in runs scored. That's a problem.

[Troll Daddy]

I think you might be stuck in "old school" thinking. You need a guy that gets on base leading off. He doesn't necessarily have to be a burner. Heyward has enough speed, he stole 23 out of 26 last year, which would have led the team, in both steals and attempts.There aren't THAT many 50 steal guys anymore.

Old school New school ... the game hasn't changed in the last hundred years. It's not rocket science ... more runners on base usually results in more runs scored. The better the hitter the better OBP. Pitching and defense usually results in more wins. Lets not forget ... chicks still dig the long ball.

Saber metric guys think they can out smart the game ... I get it. I know my thinking goes against the gain here but wtf do I care.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I think you might be stuck in "old school" thinking. You need a guy that gets on base leading off. He doesn't necessarily have to be a burner. Heyward has enough speed, he stole 23 out of 26 last year, which would have led the team, in both steals and attempts.There aren't THAT many 50 steal guys anymore.

totally agree you dont need a chone fighins leading off. Just saying if heyward was more of that type id be a lot more aold on him over upton.

Id rsther have a guy who doesnt steal at all but has a .400 obp bat leadoff over a guy with a .330 opd and 40 SBs. Id just love to have a granderson type player here

[Troll Daddy]

Odd note ... Alcides Escobar/Royals was the worse lead off hitter for season 2015.

OBP .292

Go figure

[Second Base]

i'm surprised to hear you say this because you spend so much energy on minor league players and their stats. you must be aware that individual and team statistics with RISP vary from year to year. a player that is incredible one year with RISP is horrible the next. what happens is that after all those at bats over several years, you find out that hitters hit about their same avg with RISP as they do over the course of their entire year.

 

i'm in total agreement with tdawg on this. good hitters, who hit in the MOTO, will have more rbi if the team has a higher obp. it's the same math as wins for a pitcher.

 

No disagreement.  But with minor leaguers, there are a number of different factors, from the guys hitting around them, health, working on one specific part of their game, familiarity with league, age and in the case of the Midwest, Cal and PCL, the environment.  

 

I think with free agents, we have gathered such a large sample size that by the time they're in their late 20's or 30's, we already know how a certain player will perform with RISP.  

[UndertheHalo]

well, apparently the Cubs are targeting him.  If the Angels actually want him (no evidence so far that they do) they'll need to be involved seriously now if this report is to be believed.

 

https://twitter.com/NBCSports/status/674113720608497664

 

NBC Sports â€@NBCSports  3m3 minutes ago

Report: @Cubs are now focusing on bringing in free agent outfielder Jason Heyward http://tw.nbcsports.com/aJv 

[Ohtaniland]

well, apparently the Cubs are targeting him. If the Angels actually want him (no evidence so far that they do) they'll need to be involved seriously now if this report is to be believed.

https://twitter.com/NBCSports/status/674113720608497664

NBC Sports ‏@NBCSports 3m3 minutes ago

Report: @Cubs are now focusing on bringing in free agent outfielder Jason Heyward http://tw.nbcsports.com/aJv

So let's pick up Jorge Soler and let the Cubs sign Heyward.

[Angel Oracle]

GA didn't develop HR power until age 28.

Heyward is still only 26.

Even if he doesn't, he's got every other tool to be a superstar if the BA continues to be near .300 like it was in 2015.

Edited December 8, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[CanadianHalo]

So let's pick up Jorge Soler and let the Cubs sign Heyward.

Would be ideal imo. I don't see how Heyward would choose us over the Cubs if the money is somewhat close. I really want to see this club get younger especially after the Simmons trade.

I saw a tweet yesterday from a verified Chicago writer/blogger that the Cubs like Gausman and the O's could get Soler and Baez. I really don't think we're in a position to be able to move the type of players these clubs are looking for.

JP Morosi was on MLB network yesterday and mentioned that we most likely don't even have a deep enough farm system to acquire CarGo

Edited December 8, 2015 by CanadianHalo

[Stradling]

So let's pick up Jorge Soler and let the Cubs sign Heyward.

Claude this is where I don't understand you. How many times do you have to be told Eppler can't simply be creative and acquire a player like Soler, especially after trading our top two prospects for Simmons.

[Chuck]

I like Heyward like the majority here do, but I'm having second thoughts about giving this guy close to, around or more than 200 million dollars. 

 

Thoughts?

[wopphil]

I like Heyward like the majority here do, but I'm having second thoughts about giving this guy close to, around or more than 200 million dollars.

Thoughts?

I look at it like this: if we are willing to sign a different outfielder through his age 36 season, why not take the same approach with Heyward? And if we are willing to pay $20-$24 mil per year for a different outfielder, why not pay the same for Heyward?

That right there puts Heyward's tag at somewhere between 10/200 and 10/240. And I'd pay a premium due to the fact that he is better than the other guys and you are getting his prime years. I'd have no issue with a 10/240-10/250 deal.

Edited December 8, 2015 by wopphil

[Inside Pitch]

On 12/8/2015 at 9:21 AM, Chuck Richter said:

I like Heyward like the majority here do, but I'm having second thoughts about giving this guy close to, around or more than 200 million dollars. 

 

Thoughts?

 

For me it's less about the money being spent and more about the years.   He's like the perfect storm FA as far as the Angels are concerned -- he actually fills a massive need, is a plus defender and has youth on his side.  

At the same time....10 years is a long long time.  If they can work a deal that benefits Heyward -- allows him to bolt after 5 years and again after 7, etc etc... or pay a larger average salary for fewer years I wouldn't mind them doing that, but he's going to be overvalued.

[Chuck]

I mean, don't get me wrong. If we land him, for whatever the price I won't be disappointed. Just thought I'd point that out. I mean, I wonder how Trout will feel knowing another player on team that's not nearly as good as him is getting paid more. 

[Cdaniel]

I mean, don't get me wrong. If we land him, for whatever the price I won't be disappointed. Just thought I'd point that out. I mean, I wonder how Trout will feel knowing another player on team that's not nearly as good as him is getting paid more.

I imagine pretty good because that means his next contract will be huge!

[Cdaniel]

Plus I'm sure he wants win so whatever makes the team better and puts them in a position to win is all for it.

[nate]

I am sure the Angels offered Trout a 10 year contract worth more than 200 million, he was wise to go for a shorter contract.  The AAV of Trout's deal is higher.  He is making over 30m the last 3 years of it.

[xboom28x]

If Heyward signs here, there would be approximately $60-$65MM AAV tied up to 2 players. Sure, they would be really good players, but that's a ton of money committed to two guys, neither of which is a pitcher.

[bloodbrother]

I am sure the Angels offered Trout a 10 year contract worth more than 200 million, he was wise to go for a shorter contract.  The AAV of Trout's deal is higher.  He is making over 30m the last 3 years of it.

 

Actually, it was Trout and his agent who pushed for a 13 year deal but the Angels countered with a 6 yr offer

[Redondo]

On 12/8/2015 at 9:34 AM, Inside Pitch said:

For me it's less about the money being spent and more about the years.   He's like the perfect storm FA as far as the Angels are concerned -- he actually fills a massive need, is a plus defender and has youth on his side.   

At the same time....10 years is a long long time.  If they can work a deal that benefits Heyward -- allows him to bolt after 5 years and again after 7, etc etc... or pay a larger average salary for fewer years I wouldn't mind them doing that, but he's going to be overvalued.

 

I would like see the contract structured like that if we do commit to him. Gives us and him a chance to part ways before the 10 year mark.

[tdawg87]

We sure care a lot about Arte Moreno's finances.

[xboom28x]

We sure care a lot about Arte Moreno's finances.

 

I wouldn't care how much he spent if there was an unlimited cap and no luxury taxes that would limit an owner from throwing money around like it's growing on trees. However, that is not the case, and it has prevented us from getting other high priced FAs due to getting burned on contracts like Vernon Wells, Josh Hamilton, etc.

[Turd Ferguson]

Give me Heyward. If we miss out, give me Gordon. I think getting one of those two guys is a key for this offseason and our "5 year plan."