Re-sign Freese?

[aznhockeyguy]

I know it might not be a popular sentiment but let's pause and think about it. Kubitza and Cowart were very unimpressive and looked very overwhelmed when they covered for him. I know it's a small sample size for the two players, but I don't think those two are ready yet. The Angels should resign Freese for something like 2 years at about 15-18 mil. He's actually playing better this year than last season and I see no reason why he can't still produce a .720 OPS and play solid 3B for the next two years. If the Angels do let him walk, who would they replace him with? Juan Uribe? There really isn't anyone better out there that's available in free agency, unless you count Ben Zobrist as a third baseman but he'll be very expensive. The team will be most likely spending any available free agency dollars on pitching, so what other viable alternatives does the team have?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I suppose that it depends upon whether management believes that Freese is better than our in house options, because this free agent 3B class sucks. Almost exclusively guys past their primes and non producers.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Not just this class, its every FA 3B class. BIGGEST mistae the recent FO made, IMO bigger than hamilton, was not grabbing beltre when he was out there. Would have solved soooo many problems.

There never are good 3B FAs. There really arent a ton of great ones, and those that are are locked up before FA

[Oz27]

Not just this class, its every FA 3B class. BIGGEST mistae the recent FO made, IMO bigger than hamilton, was not grabbing beltre when he was out there. Would have solved soooo many problems.

There never are good 3B FAs. There really arent a ton of great ones, and those that are are locked up before FA

It's so f**ked thinking about how different things might have been had we got Beltre and not made the Wells trade.

 

I still think it's wise to let Freese walk but I would be willing to listen for the right deal. I imagine he'll get a deal with an AAV somewhere between $7 million and $10 million. For 3/21 I'd do it but that's probably optimistic. For 4/40 I certainly wouldn't. If you split the middle and go something like 4/32 I'm probably still hesitant, but I can also understand why others wouldn't be.

[DMVol]

3 years on Freese would be a bad idea....

[eligrba]

No.

 

Use the money to invest in a more impactful player and allow the new GM the opportunity to be creative.

[Lou]

Why would Freese resign after 160 games?

[Angelsjunky]

If the salary cap wasn't an issue, I'd be tempted to say yes because chances are neither Kubitza or Cowart will be as good...yet. Kubitza can platoon at LF to get at-bats and back up Freese, and Cowart could use more seasoning in AAA.

 

That said, Freese probably wants $10M per year, and more than just a year or two. There is simply no way I'd hand out a 3+ year contract, probably not two year. I'd also like to see those precious dollars spent on a long-term investment like Heyward.

 

I still think that Cowart and/or Kubitza will be able to hand 3B long-term and if the Angels can improve the lineup in other ways (LF, 2B), I think it would be worth playing one or both of them in 2016.

[AngelsLakersFan]

Maybe Uribe on a 1 year deal

[2112]

It's a tough one.   Cowart is excellent defensively.  If he hits at all he would be better than Freese.  I think I would let him go. 

 

 

Glad it's not my decision.

[Homebrewer]

1 year incentive laden, sure.

For what his agent is going to want, no.

 

I'm hoping next year will be a year to acclimate the young starting pitchers, and Cowart and Kubie, Perez and Bandy, the young middle relievers...and anyone else who shows in ST that they might belong in the majors.

Forget about the WS next year and build a club that can support the BEST PLAYER IN BASEBALL for  3 or 4 seasons after that.

[Blarg]

If Freese would bring a draft pick then make a qualifying offer. If he accepts you have one year to apprentice Cowart and Kubitza at third. If he doesn't you start both Cowart and Kubitza as 3rd and left field alternates, take the pick and be happy.

If Freese does not rank draft compensation let him walk. He is not that much greater than a replacement level player and has been removed for defensive purposes so the loss is primarily on offense and at 109 OPS+ that is replaceable.

Edited October 3, 2015 by notti

[Blarg]

Also as a side note he hasn't been able to stay on the field. I know the response will be he got injured by being hit by a pitch but he is always getting hit in the hands with a pitch meaning he is always in need of a replacement. So if push comes to Shove just play rookies and see which one rises to the top.

[Second Base]

I would not re-up Freese. Not because I don't like him. I think his defense is better than advertised and he does indeed have a tendency to come through when it really counts. But looking at the bigger picture, what is Freese really giving you?

He's had some real fluke injuries, but when you get into your mid 30's, those type of things add up. So I don't think you're signing a player that can play 150 games a year, more like 120ish. But in those 120 games what are we looking at? .250/.320 with maybe 20 DB 10-15 HR and average defense. 10 million dollars doesn't buy what it used to.

Now Kubitza, provides us with a pretty good baseline from his numbers in AA and AAA. He isn't the sort of hitter that would receive a huge boost from playing in the PCL as he just isn't a fly ball hitter as much as he is a line drive hitter. He's never really been injured, adds a much needed left handed bat to the lineup, we'd lose nothing on defense and even gain a little as he gets used to the majors. As for his numbers, I think if you gave him 150 games, you'd see .260/.350 with 40 doubles maybe 5 HR's and 10 SB.

Cowart, I just don't buy the bat, but I can see .230 with 20 DB 10 HR and the best defense outside of Beltre.

I genuinely believe that Kyle Kubitza will have a better season in 2016 than David Freese, as long as the Angels give him that chance.

[Blarg]

So we are all agreed, go with Cowart.

:-)

[Slegnaac]

Everyone agrees that the 3B Free agent pool is poor so why would anyone think that the Angels would make Freese the best offer?

If he doesn't rate a QO then I doubt any offer will be made.

[Tyler]

Absolutely re-sign him.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Shane

[mulwin444]

A qualifying offer for Freese would likely be around $17 mil...considering the team's precarious salary situation and their need to improve next year at multiple positions, you couldn't offer him a QA even if you wanted.

That being said, like AJ laid out, Freese has been a 110-120 game player throughout his career with middling results. I'd rather go with Kubitza and Cowart to see what we got

[aznhockeyguy]

I would not re-up Freese. Not because I don't like him. I think his defense is better than advertised and he does indeed have a tendency to come through when it really counts. But looking at the bigger picture, what is Freese really giving you?

He's had some real fluke injuries, but when you get into your mid 30's, those type of things add up. So I don't think you're signing a player that can play 150 games a year, more like 120ish. But in those 120 games what are we looking at? .250/.320 with maybe 20 DB 10-15 HR and average defense. 10 million dollars doesn't buy what it used to.

Now Kubitza, provides us with a pretty good baseline from his numbers in AA and AAA. He isn't the sort of hitter that would receive a huge boost from playing in the PCL as he just isn't a fly ball hitter as much as he is a line drive hitter. He's never really been injured, adds a much needed left handed bat to the lineup, we'd lose nothing on defense and even gain a little as he gets used to the majors. As for his numbers, I think if you gave him 150 games, you'd see .260/.350 with 40 doubles maybe 5 HR's and 10 SB.

Cowart, I just don't buy the bat, but I can see .230 with 20 DB 10 HR and the best defense outside of Beltre.

I genuinely believe that Kyle Kubitza will have a better season in 2016 than David Freese, as long as the Angels give him that chance.

 

Based on what we saw earlier this season, it's highly optimistic that either Kubitza and Cowart reach those numbers.  Freese is currently at 2.3 WAR right now, 17th among 3rd basemen with at least 400 PA's.  http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=3b&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=400&type=8&season=2015&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0. I'm not really sure if the Angels are willing to do let the rookies play since they are not rebuilding.

Edited October 3, 2015 by aznhockeyguy

[Angelsjunky]

I'm not sure why some are so ready write Kubitza and Cowart off. Need I remind us:
 

Kubitza: 39 major league plate appearances

Cowart: 52 major league plate appearances

 

I'd like to see AT LEAST a few hundred PA before saying they can't handle a major league job.

[Second Base]

Based on what we saw earlier this season, it's highly optimistic that either Kubitza and Cowart reach those numbers.  Freese is currently at 2.3 WAR right now, 17th among 3rd basemen with at least 400 PA's.  http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=3b&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=400&type=8&season=2015&month=0&season1=2015&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0. I'm not really sure if the Angels are willing to do let the rookies play since they are not rebuilding.

Well that's a stupid argument. Based off what we saw from Mike Trout in his first go-around in the majors, he had no business taking Vernon Wells or Bobby Abreu's spot. Based off what we first saw from Howie Kendrick, he should probably have a lifetime BA of .350 by now. Based off what we saw from Garrett Richards, he never should've left AAA.

AND THAT STORY CAN GO ON AND ON.

Really, I think you actually have to know the player and watch them more than once to make a judgement. Especially when that player is in their early or mid 20's.

[Blarg]

I'm not sure why some are so ready write Kubitza and Cowart off. Need I remind us:

Kubitza: 39 major league plate appearances

Cowart: 52 major league plate appearances

I'd like to see AT LEAST a few hundred PA before saying they can't handle a major league job.

I am on the play the rookies bandwagon but you do realize that committing to that means no turning back like with Giavotella this season. The Angels have nothing with a bat to fall back on if the Cowart/Kubitza plan fails.

Again, I'm OK with the risk reward but the risk is real.

Edited October 3, 2015 by notti

[aznhockeyguy]

Well that's a stupid argument. Based off what we saw from Mike Trout in his first go-around in the majors, he had no business taking Vernon Wells or Bobby Abreu's spot. Based off what we first saw from Howie Kendrick, he should probably have a lifetime BA of .350 by now. Based off what we saw from Garrett Richards, he never should've left AAA.

AND THAT STORY CAN GO ON AND ON.

Really, I think you actually have to know the player and watch them more than once to make a judgement. Especially when that player is in their early or mid 20's.

 

Are you seriously comparing these guys to All star caliber players?  Ok, Trout was 19 when he debuted in the majors and only in his 2nd year in the minors and he was KILLING it in double A.  Yes he struggled, but he was 19, but every scout and expert saw he was going to be a very good player.  Kendrick posted very high batting averages in the minors for 4-5 years and was listed as a top prospect for 2 years before he made his debut at 23 with nothing else to prove in the minors.  Richards posted a 4.21 ERA in the PCL which is a very high offensive environment.  Yes he also struggled early, but he had the stuff to make it.  Kubitza had a .790 OPS at his first season in AAA at age 24. Not exactly killing it but not struggling either, and wasn't mentioned at all in prospect lists.  Not saying he can't turn into a decent player but the odds are very unlikely, but it does happen, just look at Kole Calhoun. Cowart's track record in the minors was really bad since he hit A and AA, but recently showed some flashes at AAA, but was 65 games.  Did he figure something out?  While yes, the sample size is small, but they looked really overwhelmed.  Maybe you're right and they'll turn into decent players, but I just don't see it and striking out over 1/3 of your PA's isn't a very good sign.

[UndertheHalo]

this depends, If we can get Freese on a 2 year deal for around 12 mil a year i'd be all for bringing him back.  Hard to say what we have with Kubitza and Cowart.  I would be very hesitant on a 3 year deal, and absolutely against a 4 year deal.

[Slegnaac]

I don't want 3rd base to become our LF from the last 2 seasons, especially if we're not able to get a first rate LF in the off season.