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State solar users would lose savings if proposal is OK'd; SolarCity describes 'catastrophic' future


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You didn't say anything about subsidies. You said all other countries are cutting back on wind and solar because they suck. Nice backtrack.

Wow. Follow this: 

 

Wind and solar only exist because of subsidies. It's inefficient in 2015. Maybe in 2045, it'll be efficient, but not now. 

 

If you cut subsidies, you also cut wind and solar production because the subsidies are needed to survive.

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Yeah, Glen.  You just weren't including enough assumptions in your thinking.

 

Also, the purpose of the subsidies is not to hold up the industry forever.  Tech subsidies exist to kickstart the tech until R&D costs and demand make the product affordable.  It probably is close to that point.

 

Considering the energy issues that CA constantly faces during the summer, it would make sense to give people incentives to use renewable energy.

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The issues CA faces in the summer are purely due to government policy. What industry, by the way, used subsidies for a time and then became profitable? You may be right, but I can't think of any. 

 

laugh

 

Military industrial complex exists on subsidies, agriculture, especially big ag, pharma, car companies, airline manufacturers, oil/gas...these are all industries that rely heavily on subsidies, tax breaks (a form of subsidy), and government investment. Hell, the mechanism you use to post your liberals suck grew out of ARPNET...funding by DARPA.

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The issues CA faces in the summer are purely due to government policy. What industry, by the way, used subsidies for a time and then became profitable? You may be right, but I can't think of any. 

 

Well, the internet.  I guess the jury is still out on the internet being successful or not though.

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The process of connecting a house to the grid in a way that they can safely pump energy back into the grid is extremely expensive to do correctly. AC inverters are the most expensive component of small scale photovoltaic systems, and there have to be failsafes to ensure that you don't for example electrify the neutral wire and cause injury to someone repairing the power lines. 

 

The most efficient approach would be a shift away from using AC power for everything, and the introduction of an in-house DC power standard. Just about any device that does not have a motor in it either converts AC to DC right off the bat (e.g. TVs, computers, battery chargers, most forms of lighting), or could just as easily be run on DC (any appliance with a heating element). Installing an expensive inverter to convert DC from the solar into AC only for most of that to get rectified and transformed back to DC is just silly if not for large tax subsidies.

 

 

The biggest problem I see with this article is the pricing structure that punishes households that use little power with higher rates or highly priced fixed fees for connecting to the grid are bullshit though. Pricing structure should be set up in such a way that it encourages less energy consumption in the first place by rewarding lightl users, not just punishing heavy users. If people who use few KWh per month decide "I'm paying the same if I save power or not, screw it", then a lot of the entire environmental benefit of distributed solar could be negated by wasteful power usage being incentivized.  

 

 
 

Batteries, like AC intervers, are an unnecessary intermediate step that requires heavy expense and efficiency loss. Soemthing like a supplementary Air conditioning system that runs directly on DC output from the solar would be the simplest approach to take. 

 

As far as dealing with brownouts resulting from air conditioner demand putting stress on the grid, IMO the approach to take there would be to promote cooling systems that make ice at night (when electricity is cheaper and the grid is less taxed) and use that to help cool the house during the day. 

Wow. Thanks for the response.  I do a lot of things around my house, because I enjoy it and really, why pay someone else when I can do it my own dirty deeds, dirt cheap.  gotta confess though, I don't understand much of what you wrote.  I'm really weak in the area of electricity and ac/dc power.  I read it and I was thunderstruck by the nuances of electricity. It's just dangerous, almost like dynamite (TNT) ready to explode in my hands.  Every time I work on electricity, I shut the whole house off. Excessive?  Yep, but the last thing I want is to be holding the wrong connections and be shot down in flames.  If I had an old house and a real fixer upper I'm sure I'd get the hang of it quickly, but it's a long way to the top. I'd love to live off the grid, but right now, it's not feasible with a job and kids in college and high school.  I do know that my panels work nicely and I don't pay an electricity bill.  I think it kinda sucks that I'd get penalized. 

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For those of you who have taken the jump to solar, what happens to your solar equipment lease if you sell your house and the new owner either can't or doesn't want to assume it?

 

 

Basically, you have to sell your house to a tree hugger

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laugh

 

Military industrial complex exists on subsidies, agriculture, especially big ag, pharma, car companies, airline manufacturers, oil/gas...these are all industries that rely heavily on subsidies, tax breaks (a form of subsidy), and government investment. Hell, the mechanism you use to post your liberals suck grew out of ARPNET...funding by DARPA.

These are not good examples. You're not getting what I'm saying. 

 

Agriculture prices would fall without subsidies. People would still buy food. 

Pharma makes money. I guess the medicare helps buy drugs, but drugs would still exist. 

Car companies make money. Maybe not American car companies, but people would still buy cars. Cars were popular before Obama saved GM. 

Oil subsidies, I believe, are leases designed to encourage risky drilling. Oil and gas is very popular and profitable. In fact, government makes much more from taxes of gasoline products than it gives away. 

 

In other words, people don't need subsidies to to buy the above products. The subsidies exist to please certain constituents or encourage risk.

 

NOBODY needs to buy wind and solar when they can get cheaper energy (the same product) from somewhere else. Wind and solar would just be for specialty applications, AT THIS POINT, if it weren't for subsidies. 

Edited by Juan Savage
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Basically, you have to sell your house to a tree hugger

Pretty much what I figured. I will pass, since I occasionally get job offers that would require relocation, and I want to be free to pursue one if it is good enough. I don't want to have to concern myself with whether a prospective buyer doesn't like the crap on the roof.

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I'm not personally against pushing society in one direction when it comes to energy if it will eventually lead to a better society. Like anything, you have to balance costs and alternatives. I think a lot of people are suspicious of a religious-like devotion to Green. 

 

The fact is that building a few more natural gas and nuclear facilities will be much, much more cost and labor efficient than putting panels on everybody's house. 

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