Trout maybe the MVP again?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Enjoy your thread and your imagined sense of superior intelligence. I shall waste time elsewhere henceforth.

[QuinlansMinion]

Enjoy your thread and your imagined sense of superior intelligence. I shall waste time elsewhere henceforth.

Enjoy making sarcastic comments that dont add anything to a discussion elsewhere.  Hopefully one day you learn to construct a cohesive argument. 

[Chimi]

Angels had one really terrible month.  It just so happened to be the same month Trout was also terrible.  This team goes by how well Mike Trout does.  Take Donaldson out of the Blue Jays lineup and I'm sure they would still be winning games. Not taking anything away from the season Donaldson has had.  But when it comes to MVP, there is no one more VALUABLE to his team than Mike Trout is to the Angels.

[beatlesrule]

At this moment, Donaldson deserves it. I'll reevaluate again in a week.

[Guest]

Lol.  You just dont get it.  

Maybe, instead of being a snide little shit, you can share your reasoning? I know we're all rubes compared to you, but try and explain.

[QuinlansMinion]

Maybe, instead of being a snide little shit, you can share your reasoning? I know we're all rubes compared to you, but try and explain.

Ive made several different posts with reasoning. To which the only counter argument ive gotten was sarcastic remarks that dont make any sense.

[Angelsjunky]

Hes carrying a team with a negative run differential to the playoffs.  Hes leading the league in OPS, OPS+, and WAR, with absolutely no help around him, and a guy with an OBP under .300 hitting behind him.  He has 40 home runs playing in a pitchers park.  Hes saved many games with his glove.  

 

Theres no question who the MVP is.  Its the idiots who favor RBI and team win totals who think Donaldson should win it.  

 

Huh? Some really faulty assumptions here. First of all, thinking Donaldson should win doesn't mean that one necessarily favors RBI and team win totals. Donaldson also happens to have a higher WAR, 8.5 to 8.3 to Fangraphs, 8.9 to 8.8 according to Baseball Reference. Very close, but edge to Donaldson.

 

So using the best overall statistic available for total performance, Donaldson has a slight edge. So your argument about old school vs. new school is invalidated with one fell swoop. Can we cut the attitude now?

 

Now Trout has been an overall better hitter, a 170 wRC+ and .410 wOBA to Donaldson's 157 and .401. But Donaldson has brought more in the way of defense to even it out, and to be honest RBI do count for something, right? Let's not totally negate them from the mix. Not to mention runs. Donaldson has +34 RBI and +22 Runs over Trout. I know, I know - this is mainly if not fully due to the team around him. But it is something.

 

Anyhow, the main point is that there is a completely valid argument for Donaldson that has nothing to do with RBI or team win totals and has everything to do with overall performance. Donaldson has been as good as Trout, plain and simple.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Angelsjunky

[AngelArcher]

I also don't buy the argument that Toronto is still a playoff team without Donaldson. We've seen basically the same team in recent years and they were mediocre at best. Sure Price helps, but he only pitches one out of five games. Donaldson is a spark plug type player who makes everyone around him better and he does it on both sides of the ball. I'd say he's a more worthy MVP than either years Miggy beat out Trout.

[QuinlansMinion]

Huh? Some really faulty assumptions here. First of all, thinking Donaldson should win doesn't mean that one necessarily favors RBI and team win totals. Donaldson also happens to have a higher WAR, 8.5 to 8.3 to Fangraphs, 8.9 to 8.8 according to Baseball Reference. Very close, but edge to Donaldson.

So using the best overall statistic available for total performance, Donaldson has a slight edge. So your argument about old school vs. new school is invalidated with one fell swoop. Can we cut the attitude now?

Now Trout has been an overall better hitter, a 170 wRC+ and .410 wOBA to Donaldson's 157 and .401. But Donaldson has brought more in the way of defense to even it out, and to be honest RBI do count for something, right? Let's not totally negate them from the mix. Not to mention runs. Donaldson has +34 RBI and +22 Runs over Trout. I know, I know - this is mainly if not fully due to the team around him. But it is something.

Anyhow, the main point is that there is a completely valid argument for Donaldson that has nothing to do with RBI or team win totals and has everything to do with overall performance. Donaldson has been as good as Trout, plain and simple.

At the time I made my original post, Trout was leading in WAR, according to ESPN stats. That may change daily, but most of what I said still holds true. Trout has a higher OPS playing in a park thats twice as hard on hitters than it is over at Rogers Centre. I dont think its arguable Trout is more valuable to the Angels than Donaldson is to the Jays. The Jays have 2 other guys with 30 homers and 100 RBI. I normally wouldnt penalize a player for having good teammates, but its rare to see someone do what Trout is doing with the lack of talent that he has around him. Thats why he deserves it if hes able to successfully get the Angels to the playoffs.

[Stradling]

At the time I made my original post, Trout was leading in WAR, according to ESPN stats. That may change daily, but most of what I said still holds true. Trout has a higher OPS playing in a park thats twice as hard on hitters than it is over at Rogers Centre. I dont think its arguable Trout is more valuable to the Angels than Donaldson is to the Jays. The Jays have 2 other guys with 30 homers and 100 RBI. I normally wouldnt penalize a player for having good teammates, but its rare to see someone do what Trout is doing with the lack of talent that he has around him. Thats why he deserves it if hes able to successfully get the Angels to the playoffs.

Didn't you shit all over me two nights ago in the game day thread when I mentioned the lack of talent the team has? Let me answer that for you, yes you did. But since it didn't fit your "Scioscia sucks narrative" you wouldnt consider it.

[Angelsjunky]

At the time I made my original post, Trout was leading in WAR, according to ESPN stats. That may change daily, but most of what I said still holds true. Trout has a higher OPS playing in a park thats twice as hard on hitters than it is over at Rogers Centre. I dont think its arguable Trout is more valuable to the Angels than Donaldson is to the Jays. The Jays have 2 other guys with 30 homers and 100 RBI. I normally wouldnt penalize a player for having good teammates, but its rare to see someone do what Trout is doing with the lack of talent that he has around him. Thats why he deserves it if hes able to successfully get the Angels to the playoffs.

 

There's no denying Trout has been excellent. But for whatever reason you seem to have a problem with the idea that Donaldson has been equally excellent. Yes, Trout has a great impact on the Angels by virtue of the fact that the Blue Jays have better players, but to penalize Donaldson for playing on a better team would be like, I don't know, penalizing Trout for not having anyone to drive in.

 

Again, the point is that they're both worthy. We know that voters tend to unduly bias triple crown stats, but in this case Donaldson is actually a worthy recipient of the award. This isn't a Juan Gonzalez situation!

Edited September 29, 2015 by Angelsjunky

[Broad Street]

I don't seem to recall Donaldson disappearing for a month. I could be wrong though.

[Stradling]

It's who you know

[mulwin444]

Trout's worst month (August):           .218 .352 OBP .689 OPS

Donaldson's worst month (June):      .269 .322 OBP .720 OPS

 

Trout's July:               .367 .462 OBP 1.323 OPS

Trout's Sept (so far): .295 .407 OBP 1.021 OPS

 

Just for reference

[ABC]

.295 .397 .582 .979 174 Trout

.299 .372 .575 .948 158 Donaldson

 

It's silly for anyone can think Donaldson is an easy pick over Trout. I can see the argument why they think old school voters may heavily weight RBI and Runs, in which Donaldson leads the league, but Trout leads the league in SLG, OPS and OPS+. All while Donaldson plays almost all of his games in little league parks as part of a potent lineup.

Edited September 29, 2015 by CF8

[QuinlansMinion]

.295 .397 .582 .979 174 Trout

.299 .372 .575 .948 158 Donaldson

It's silly for anyone can think Donaldson is an easy pick over Trout. I can see the argument why they think old school voters may heavily weight RBI and Runs, in which Donaldson leads the league, but Trout leads the league in SLG, OPS and OPS+. All while Donaldson plays almost all of his games in little league parks as part of a potent lineup.

Finally someone gets it.

[ABC]

Trout plays CF.

[mulwin444]

Trout is a CFer...not just your average OFer

[ABC]

Let's see how many CF sluggers we can name vs 3B sluggers over the past decade. Or we can save everyone time because anyone who follows baseball will know that the CF list is much shorter than the 3B list.

[VariousCrap]

I personally feel it can go either way and this week will determine it.  I think Donaldson has the slight edge though.

[ispy45]

Quality 3b are harder to find in baseball.

[VariousCrap]

Currently, according to ESPN:

 

Trout 8.9 WAR
Donaldson 8.8 WAR

[ABC]

Quality 3b are harder to find in baseball.

 

vs CF?

 

lol

[Ray McKigney]

Didn't you shit all over me two nights ago

 

I always have to pay extra for that.

 

Funniest post this year.

[Guest]

Quality 3b are harder to find in baseball.

WAR actually accounts for this already (offensive WAR is relative to others at that players' position)