Rebuild?

[AngelsLakersFan]

Yup.  All the while Trout will by eyeing his 10 year deal he will get where he knows they will spend.  And in 2-3 years, there is no certainty that the rebuild will work (do you really trust the Angels braintrust to do it right?).  We still won't have any top picks like KC, Pittsburgh, Houston, Tampa Bay, Chicago are benefitting/benefitted from.  KC has 8 years of top 10 picks that are finally coming to maturity.  Chicago had the last 5 years of top 10 picks.  Pittsburgh had 7 and 8 out of 9 before coming to maturity.  Houston had 5 years, including 3 years in a row of #1 picks.  And we all know about Tampa Bay's draft histories.  

 

You have a once in a generation player.  You have to go all in.  You can rebuild after he leaves.  

 

I agree, but they need to spend money on the right players. If they aren't going to spend then they need to rebuild. They don't have to do it all through free agency, since they don't have much talent to trade they can take on additional bad contracts to bring in a good one. But bottom line is they need to spend or they need to rebuild.

[Docwaukee]

This year, I have been as negative as I can remember about any Angels team.  They have made me want to beat a nun with a kitten.  

 

So I apologize in advance for the following condescending post:

 

Trying to rebuild this team right now is just stupid, stupid, stupid.  

 

Let's talk about why.  

 

1.  Does everyone realize what 'rebuild' means?  Typically, it means offloading your expensive players to make room for cheaper ones that need experience.  All of our cheap talent is already playing.  We have no position players in the minors that are worth clearing a spot for.  All of our high priced players are unmoveable.  We have one (aybar), maybe two (smith) moveable contracts that expire after 2016.  We have a bunch of other players (richards, santiago, calhoun, and a slew of young pitchers) that are under control for 2-6 years.   The bulk of our expensive contracts expire after 2016 and 2017 leaving us with all of two of them.  One of which is an albatross.  The other is worth it.  You're still stuck with the albatross no matter what you do.

 

1b.  Stop with the phills reference.  It's not even close to accurate.  In 2012 when they won 81 games, their best player was a 33yo Utley and a 28yo Hamels.  Everyone else on the team was shit or old or both.  They also didn't have a 24yo Mike Trout and they didn't have a solid core of starting pitching.  Their farm was even more horrendous.  

 

2.  Does everyone realize how long it takes to rebuild?  We currently have a weak farm system.  We blew our foreign load on one guy.  So we are gonna take our core of club controlled players and trade them for a bunch of unproven talent?  Why?  So the collective is a little better than what we currently have?  Again, the goal of a rebuild is to move your high priced talent in exchange for young, club controlled talent.  We don't have any moveable high priced talent except for that one guy.  So we might hasten the strength of the farm yet we'd still have to wait for them to develop.  An of course with prospects comes risk.  

 

3.  We have Mike Trout.  Let me write that again.  We have Mike Trout.  The best player in baseball.  A guy who looks to be an inner circle hall of famer.  He's ours for the next five years.  But we're gonna just waste anywhere from 40-60% of that time?  

 

4.  As intimated above, our payroll situation isn't as bad as it seems.  We'll have one albatross salary after 2017 and it's ours regardless of whether we rebuild, stand pat, spend another billion, or jump up and down and sing I'm henry the eighth.  Adding a little payroll for next year is tight, but not nuts.  By 2018 it's manageable again.  Especially if the contracts you add expire within 3-4 years.  

 

5.  We won 98 games last year.  I'm gonna concede that we had some really good years from guys that may not do it again, but this year we had some really awful performances.  Ones that if replaced with league average talent can make a huge difference.  LF went from slightly above average to a disaster.  2b went from very good to weak.  Two starters got worse and our catcher crapped the bed.  Imagine just mediocrity in those spots.  It doesn't make us 98 wins good, but probably somewhere between this year and last.  That's around 90 wins.  

 

Bottom line is that you don't waste seasons of Mike Trout.  Particularly when you have immovable contracts, a limited farm system, and a decent core of young players at the major league level.  Go get a solid left fielder.  Overpay a bit if you have to.  Trade Santiago for a young club controlled 2bman with potential and a pen arm.  Add another pen arm.  Get a stop gap 3bman to platoon with cowart.  

 

Take a look at some of the other teams that are in playoff contention.   There isn't one team in the AL that scares me for next year.

 

How would this look:

Zobrist 2b, Gordon LF, Prado at 3b (trade with fla) and Tyler Clippard in the pen.  

 

Why guarantee yourself a losing season while you are still stuck with the players you'd like to but can't get rid of? 

[NrM]

Which scenario do you think would interest Trout to re-sign the most?

 

 

A. Rebuild now in hopes of building a franchise team 4 years from now.

 

Trout sees the team is going to be competitive and decides to re-sign

 

or

 

B.Try to win now, sacrificing the future.

 

Trout becomes a free agent...sees how shitty the angels have become.  Decides to sign with a competitive team instead of the Angels

Edited September 22, 2015 by Poozy

[Ohtaniland]

Rebuild?

 

We don't rebuild, we reload.

[Troll Daddy]

A rebuild is the last thing this team needs. Please don't listen to Scotty when it comes to Weaver and Wilson. There's plenty of time next season to figure those two out. The competition for starters should be fun.

Trade for Donaldson and sign Cespedes and were good as gold Seriously, a power bat and a legit lead off player and we should be fine.

Bullpen is always a work in progress.

[Troll Daddy]

Which scenario do you think would interest Trout to re-sign the most?

A. Rebuild now in hopes of building a franchise team 4 years from now.

Trout sees the team is going to be competitive and decides to re-sign

or

B.Try to win now, sacrificing the future.

Trout becomes a free agent...sees how shitty the angels have become. Decides to sign with a competitive team instead of the Angels

You think Trout wants to play through a rebuild operation that may never pan out.

Lol go to bed

[gotbeer]

4.  As intimated above, our payroll situation isn't as bad as it seems.  We'll have one albatross salary after 2017 and it's ours regardless of whether we rebuild, stand pat, spend another billion, or jump up and down and sing I'm henry the eighth.  Adding a little payroll for next year is tight, but not nuts.  By 2018 it's manageable again.  Especially if the contracts you add expire within 3-4 years.  

 

 

 

Our payroll isn't bad.  But our Luxury Tax situation is horrible.  Especially since we don't want to go over.  

[tomsred]

This year, I have been as negative as I can remember about any Angels team.  They have made me want to beat a nun with a kitten.  

 

So I apologize in advance for the following condescending post:

 

Trying to rebuild this team right now is just stupid, stupid, stupid.  

 

Let's talk about why.  

 

1.  Does everyone realize what 'rebuild' means?  Typically, it means offloading your expensive players to make room for cheaper ones that need experience.  All of our cheap talent is already playing.  We have no position players in the minors that are worth clearing a spot for.  All of our high priced players are unmoveable.  We have one (aybar), maybe two (smith) moveable contracts that expire after 2016.  We have a bunch of other players (richards, santiago, calhoun, and a slew of young pitchers) that are under control for 2-6 years.   The bulk of our expensive contracts expire after 2016 and 2017 leaving us with all of two of them.  One of which is an albatross.  The other is worth it.  You're still stuck with the albatross no matter what you do.

 

1b.  Stop with the phills reference.  It's not even close to accurate.  In 2012 when they won 81 games, their best player was a 33yo Utley and a 28yo Hamels.  Everyone else on the team was shit or old or both.  They also didn't have a 24yo Mike Trout and they didn't have a solid core of starting pitching.  Their farm was even more horrendous.  

 

2.  Does everyone realize how long it takes to rebuild?  We currently have a weak farm system.  We blew our foreign load on one guy.  So we are gonna take our core of club controlled players and trade them for a bunch of unproven talent?  Why?  So the collective is a little better than what we currently have?  Again, the goal of a rebuild is to move your high priced talent in exchange for young, club controlled talent.  We don't have any moveable high priced talent except for that one guy.  So we might hasten the strength of the farm yet we'd still have to wait for them to develop.  An of course with prospects comes risk.  

 

3.  We have Mike Trout.  Let me write that again.  We have Mike Trout.  The best player in baseball.  A guy who looks to be an inner circle hall of famer.  He's ours for the next five years.  But we're gonna just waste anywhere from 40-60% of that time?  

 

4.  As intimated above, our payroll situation isn't as bad as it seems.  We'll have one albatross salary after 2017 and it's ours regardless of whether we rebuild, stand pat, spend another billion, or jump up and down and sing I'm henry the eighth.  Adding a little payroll for next year is tight, but not nuts.  By 2018 it's manageable again.  Especially if the contracts you add expire within 3-4 years.  

 

5.  We won 98 games last year.  I'm gonna concede that we had some really good years from guys that may not do it again, but this year we had some really awful performances.  Ones that if replaced with league average talent can make a huge difference.  LF went from slightly above average to a disaster.  2b went from very good to weak.  Two starters got worse and our catcher crapped the bed.  Imagine just mediocrity in those spots.  It doesn't make us 98 wins good, but probably somewhere between this year and last.  That's around 90 wins.  

 

Bottom line is that you don't waste seasons of Mike Trout.  Particularly when you have immovable contracts, a limited farm system, and a decent core of young players at the major league level.  Go get a solid left fielder.  Overpay a bit if you have to.  Trade Santiago for a young club controlled 2bman with potential and a pen arm.  Add another pen arm.  Get a stop gap 3bman to platoon with cowart.  

 

Take a look at some of the other teams that are in playoff contention.   There isn't one team in the AL that scares me for next year.

 

How would this look:

Zobrist 2b, Gordon LF, Prado at 3b (trade with fla) and Tyler Clippard in the pen.  

 

Why guarantee yourself a losing season while you are still stuck with the players you'd like to but can't get rid of? 

 

Your comments are right on Doc, well done.  I would love to have Zobrist, Gordon and Prado - that would be a really solid injection of talent.

[tomsred]

Rebuild?

 

We don't rebuild, we reload.

 

Hopefully with live bullets this time.

[Ohtaniland]

You think Trout wants to play through a rebuild operation that may never pan out.

Lol go to bed

 

Trout is probably already trying to figure out how to catch a ride sometime soon. He can't be very happy right now.

 

[NrM]

This year, I have been as negative as I can remember about any Angels team.  They have made me want to beat a nun with a kitten.  

 

So I apologize in advance for the following condescending post:

 

Trying to rebuild this team right now is just stupid, stupid, stupid.  

 

Let's talk about why.  

 

1.  Does everyone realize what 'rebuild' means?  Typically, it means offloading your expensive players to make room for cheaper ones that need experience.  All of our cheap talent is already playing.  We have no position players in the minors that are worth clearing a spot for.  All of our high priced players are unmoveable.  We have one (aybar), maybe two (smith) moveable contracts that expire after 2016.  We have a bunch of other players (richards, santiago, calhoun, and a slew of young pitchers) that are under control for 2-6 years.   The bulk of our expensive contracts expire after 2016 and 2017 leaving us with all of two of them.  One of which is an albatross.  The other is worth it.  You're still stuck with the albatross no matter what you do.

 

1b.  Stop with the phills reference.  It's not even close to accurate.  In 2012 when they won 81 games, their best player was a 33yo Utley and a 28yo Hamels.  Everyone else on the team was shit or old or both.  They also didn't have a 24yo Mike Trout and they didn't have a solid core of starting pitching.  Their farm was even more horrendous.  

 

2.  Does everyone realize how long it takes to rebuild?  We currently have a weak farm system.  We blew our foreign load on one guy.  So we are gonna take our core of club controlled players and trade them for a bunch of unproven talent?  Why?  So the collective is a little better than what we currently have?  Again, the goal of a rebuild is to move your high priced talent in exchange for young, club controlled talent.  We don't have any moveable high priced talent except for that one guy.  So we might hasten the strength of the farm yet we'd still have to wait for them to develop.  An of course with prospects comes risk.  

 

3.  We have Mike Trout.  Let me write that again.  We have Mike Trout.  The best player in baseball.  A guy who looks to be an inner circle hall of famer.  He's ours for the next five years.  But we're gonna just waste anywhere from 40-60% of that time?  

 

4.  As intimated above, our payroll situation isn't as bad as it seems.  We'll have one albatross salary after 2017 and it's ours regardless of whether we rebuild, stand pat, spend another billion, or jump up and down and sing I'm henry the eighth.  Adding a little payroll for next year is tight, but not nuts.  By 2018 it's manageable again.  Especially if the contracts you add expire within 3-4 years.  

 

5.  We won 98 games last year.  I'm gonna concede that we had some really good years from guys that may not do it again, but this year we had some really awful performances.  Ones that if replaced with league average talent can make a huge difference.  LF went from slightly above average to a disaster.  2b went from very good to weak.  Two starters got worse and our catcher crapped the bed.  Imagine just mediocrity in those spots.  It doesn't make us 98 wins good, but probably somewhere between this year and last.  That's around 90 wins.  

 

Bottom line is that you don't waste seasons of Mike Trout.  Particularly when you have immovable contracts, a limited farm system, and a decent core of young players at the major league level.  Go get a solid left fielder.  Overpay a bit if you have to.  Trade Santiago for a young club controlled 2bman with potential and a pen arm.  Add another pen arm.  Get a stop gap 3bman to platoon with cowart.  

 

Take a look at some of the other teams that are in playoff contention.   There isn't one team in the AL that scares me for next year.

 

How would this look:

Zobrist 2b, Gordon LF, Prado at 3b (trade with fla) and Tyler Clippard in the pen.  

 

Why guarantee yourself a losing season while you are still stuck with the players you'd like to but can't get rid of? 

 

Tend to agree with what you said, but you ignored the farmsystem.

The bulk of the Angels contracts expiring doesn't matter if there's nothing in the farmsystem to replace them.

 

The only team capable of signing big free agents every year is the dodgers.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Poozy

[TroutField]

Outside of CJ Cron(who I don't think highly of at all), it's been 4 years since the angels developed an everyday player.

Wouldn't be a big deal if they had some players on the way, but there aren't any.

It could be another 3-6 years before they finally develop an everyday player.

Calhoun? Perez seems to be an everyday player too.

[Docwaukee]

Which scenario do you think would interest Trout to re-sign the most?

 

 

A. Rebuild now in hopes of building a franchise team 4 years from now.

 

Trout sees the team is going to be competitive and decides to re-sign

 

or

 

B.Try to win now, sacrificing the future.

 

Trout becomes a free agent...sees how shitty the angels have become.  Decides to sign with a competitive team instead of the Angels

You really think that Mike Trout would wade through shit for some of his prime years while the team tries a complete overhaul with zero guarantee of anything?  

 

Or do you think he sees last years 98 wins and several poor performances from this year as a reason for the drop?  

 

Do you really think he would have signed away three of his free agent seasons while the team puts up 300 losses during that time?  

 

Every player in baseball would have the org trade away every prospect in their org for an improved chance of winning now.  They don't give a shit about what the team is like 4 years from now.  

 

If I am Mike Trout and Calhoun, Richards, Aybar, and Santiago get traded, I am on the horn to my agent so freakin fast it would be unbelievable.  

 

In four years, you take the risk of not being good enough and still losing him.  

 

I'm sorry man, but the scenario you are proposing has a much higher likelihood of losing Trout than going out and signing some players to fill some gaps yet still staying focused on strengthening the farm by not losing draft picks.  

 

Again, the core of team is under club control and the players you'd like to get rid of are stuck here.  

 

Here's an example for you:

 

A team with a 27yo hall of fame player 78 win season in 2007 after a fluke WS win with 83 wins during the regular season in 2006.  They had a young up and coming catcher and a young solid starter.   That's about it.  Their farm system was ranked 23rd.  The next year they added some players and finished with 86 wins, but the core was pretty much the same.  the following year they added a strong LFer yet the rest of their team was still pretty mediocre except for a breakout performance from one of their starters and a career year from another.  The rest of their starting pitching depth was bad.  Their position player depth was even worse.  Their farm was on the rise however now middle to upper third.  They were ousted from the playoffs in 2009.  They took a step back in 2010 with 86 wins.  But in 2011 they won the world series.  They have been a dominant force since.

 

so 83, 78, 86, 91, 86 wins over a five year span and building up the farm.  Not gut jobs.  No rebuilds.  just steady progress.  They kept their hall of famer and really didn't have much of a core otherwise.  A couple of nice pitchers.  Some smart free agent additions.  And a little industrial espionage.  

 

Let it play out.  Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

This year, I have been as negative as I can remember about any Angels team.  They have made me want to beat a nun with a kitten.  

 

So I apologize in advance for the following condescending post:

 

Trying to rebuild this team right now is just stupid, stupid, stupid.  

 

Let's talk about why.  

 

1.  Does everyone realize what 'rebuild' means?  Typically, it means offloading your expensive players to make room for cheaper ones that need experience.  All of our cheap talent is already playing.  We have no position players in the minors that are worth clearing a spot for.  All of our high priced players are unmoveable.  We have one (aybar), maybe two (smith) moveable contracts that expire after 2016.  We have a bunch of other players (richards, santiago, calhoun, and a slew of young pitchers) that are under control for 2-6 years.   The bulk of our expensive contracts expire after 2016 and 2017 leaving us with all of two of them.  One of which is an albatross.  The other is worth it.  You're still stuck with the albatross no matter what you do.

 

1b.  Stop with the phills reference.  It's not even close to accurate.  In 2012 when they won 81 games, their best player was a 33yo Utley and a 28yo Hamels.  Everyone else on the team was shit or old or both.  They also didn't have a 24yo Mike Trout and they didn't have a solid core of starting pitching.  Their farm was even more horrendous.  

 

2.  Does everyone realize how long it takes to rebuild?  We currently have a weak farm system.  We blew our foreign load on one guy.  So we are gonna take our core of club controlled players and trade them for a bunch of unproven talent?  Why?  So the collective is a little better than what we currently have?  Again, the goal of a rebuild is to move your high priced talent in exchange for young, club controlled talent.  We don't have any moveable high priced talent except for that one guy.  So we might hasten the strength of the farm yet we'd still have to wait for them to develop.  An of course with prospects comes risk.  

 

3.  We have Mike Trout.  Let me write that again.  We have Mike Trout.  The best player in baseball.  A guy who looks to be an inner circle hall of famer.  He's ours for the next five years.  But we're gonna just waste anywhere from 40-60% of that time?  

 

4.  As intimated above, our payroll situation isn't as bad as it seems.  We'll have one albatross salary after 2017 and it's ours regardless of whether we rebuild, stand pat, spend another billion, or jump up and down and sing I'm henry the eighth.  Adding a little payroll for next year is tight, but not nuts.  By 2018 it's manageable again.  Especially if the contracts you add expire within 3-4 years.  

 

5.  We won 98 games last year.  I'm gonna concede that we had some really good years from guys that may not do it again, but this year we had some really awful performances.  Ones that if replaced with league average talent can make a huge difference.  LF went from slightly above average to a disaster.  2b went from very good to weak.  Two starters got worse and our catcher crapped the bed.  Imagine just mediocrity in those spots.  It doesn't make us 98 wins good, but probably somewhere between this year and last.  That's around 90 wins.  

 

Bottom line is that you don't waste seasons of Mike Trout.  Particularly when you have immovable contracts, a limited farm system, and a decent core of young players at the major league level.  Go get a solid left fielder.  Overpay a bit if you have to.  Trade Santiago for a young club controlled 2bman with potential and a pen arm.  Add another pen arm.  Get a stop gap 3bman to platoon with cowart.  

 

Take a look at some of the other teams that are in playoff contention.   There isn't one team in the AL that scares me for next year.

 

How would this look:

Zobrist 2b, Gordon LF, Prado at 3b (trade with fla) and Tyler Clippard in the pen.  

 

Why guarantee yourself a losing season while you are still stuck with the players you'd like to but can't get rid of? 

 

I generally agree with this. But we have to watch out that we don't end up in the 'mediocrity trap.' If we aren't going to spend money this team will not get better, and if we don't get worse then we will continue our trend of low draft picks, and small bonus pools to go along with our near zero level of foreign presence. 

[Ohtaniland]

If Mike Trout has to play on a shit club he may as well do it in a hitters ballpark like Philly. At the very least he can rack up some even better HOF numbers closer to home.

[NrM]

You really think that Mike Trout would wade through shit for some of his prime years while the team tries a complete overhaul with zero guarantee of anything?  

 

Or do you think he sees last years 98 wins and several poor performances from this year as a reason for the drop?  

 

Do you really think he would have signed away three of his free agent seasons while the team puts up 300 losses during that time?  

 

Every player in baseball would have the org trade away every prospect in their org for an improved chance of winning now.  They don't give a shit about what the team is like 4 years from now.  

 

If I am Mike Trout and Calhoun, Richards, Aybar, and Santiago get traded, I am on the horn to my agent so freakin fast it would be unbelievable.  

 

In four years, you take the risk of not being good enough and still losing him.  

 

I'm sorry man, but the scenario you are proposing has a much higher likelihood of losing Trout than going out and signing some players to fill some gaps yet still staying focused on strengthening the farm by not losing draft picks.  

 

Again, the core of team is under club control and the players you'd like to get rid of are stuck here.  

 

Here's an example for you:

 

A team with a 27yo hall of fame player 78 win season in 2007 after a fluke WS win with 83 wins during the regular season in 2006.  They had a young up and coming catcher and a young solid starter.   That's about it.  Their farm system was ranked 23rd.  The next year they added some players and finished with 86 wins, but the core was pretty much the same.  the following year they added a strong LFer yet the rest of their team was still pretty mediocre except for a breakout performance from one of their starters and a career year from another.  The rest of their starting pitching depth was bad.  Their position player depth was even worse.  Their farm was on the rise however now middle to upper third.  They were ousted from the playoffs in 2009.  They took a step back in 2010 with 86 wins.  But in 2011 they won the world series.  They have been a dominant force since.

 

so 83, 78, 86, 91, 86 wins over a five year span and building up the farm.  Not gut jobs.  No rebuilds.  just steady progress.  They kept their hall of famer and really didn't have much of a core otherwise.  A couple of nice pitchers.  Some smart free agent additions.  And a little industrial espionage.  

 

Let it play out.  Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.  

 

Good points.

Unfortunately, it's hard to have those expections when the front office is in shambles. Can't really compare one of the best run organizations ever to the Angels.

 

Also a big difference between the NL Central from 2009-2014 to the current AL West.

 

 

Hopefully the collection of young starting pitchers meet the high expectations many of you guys seem to have.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Poozy

[tomsred]

Tend to agree with what you said, but you ignored the farmsystem.

The bulk of the Angels contracts expiring doesn't matter if there's nothing in the farmsystem to replace them.

 

The only team capable of signing big free agents every year is the dodgers.

 

How true Poozy, the Dodgers are spending like drunk sailors, and they are driving up the market price for the good ones in a big way.  We will probably have to be content, and take our chances with some second tier free agents, especially if the luxury tax is a barrier.

[VariousCrap]

Without a doubt, you don't rebuild. This team is just a few solid Free Agent's away from being a seriously legit team. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this team needs a real ace, LF, 3B and/or 2B.

Ace: Price or Cueto

LF: Cesepedes, Heyward,Upton or Gordon

2B: Zobrist

3B: Freese or Uribe (to split time w/ Cowart)

The reality is Arte has to go over the Luxury Tax Limit if he wants to turn this team around. He needs to remember a ton of money will be coming off the books in the next couple years and when the new MLB/labor contract is done, the Luxury Tax will be raised up big time because all of the money being made due to TV contracts.

Edited September 22, 2015 by VariousCrap

[Docwaukee]

Tend to agree with what you said, but you ignored the farmsystem, which is why the Angels are currently in this mess.

 

The bulk of the Angels contracts expiring in a few years doesn't do much when there's nothing in the farmsystem to replace them.

 

The only team capable of signing big free agents every year is the dodgers.

see my comments about the Cards farm system from 2006-2011.  

 

We don't have to sign Price, Cespedes, and Zobrist to make this team a playoff contender.  That's my point.  

 

Our farm is weak no doubt.  It used to be god awful 2 years ago but with one good pick and some schrewd moves, it's decent on the pitching side and now lacks position players.  My other point is that having a good farm system is great but not just for the sake of having one.  I'd rather have a potential 90 win mlb team with a weak farm than have farm talent and 100 losses.  Having both would be nice and not giving up first round picks is a start.  

 

I am not confident in any franchise to turn Calhoun, Richards, Heaney, Aybar, Santiago, Cron, Smith, Gott and Street in any combination of players that would be considerably better than the collective of what those guys are now.  Especially 4 years from now and for not much less money.  

 

Add some pieces.  See how next year goes.  If it doesn't work out, trade Aybar and Smith.  Maybe Santiago.  The year after that, do the same thing.  If it doesn't work out then plug the holes.  wash, rinse. repeat.  build up the farm.  

 

Here is the other thing to note about farm systems.  Generally, you expect about 1 player per year to have a considerable major league impact.  A couple others might contribute.  From year to year, the difference between a really good system and a poor one is 1-2 players.  Look at what our 2009 draft did, and then look at our 2010.  It's the difference between getting Caleb Cowart over Chritian Yelich or Noah Syndergaard vs. Taylor Lindsey.  What if Alex Abbot or Jahmai Jones are beasts in two years?  

 

Oddly enough, the cards got Miller, Kelly, Carpenter, Rosenthal and Matt Adams in 2009.  In 2010, they got dick.  In 2011 they got Wong and Seth Maness.  In 2012, they got Wacha.  13-15 is tbd.  (I keep using the cards btw, because over the last 15 years or so they are the most similar to us in terms of franchise success and wins).  That's about it though.  

[Docwaukee]

I generally agree with this. But we have to watch out that we don't end up in the 'mediocrity trap.' If we aren't going to spend money this team will not get better, and if we don't get worse then we will continue our trend of low draft picks, and small bonus pools to go along with our near zero level of foreign presence. 

I agree with this 100%.  If we try to patch together a team with kyle kubitza if LF, Cowart at 3b and Gia at 2b next year, we are hosed.  

[Ohtaniland]

This year, I have been as negative as I can remember about any Angels team. They have made me want to beat a nun with a kitten.

So I apologize in advance for the following condescending post:

Trying to rebuild this team right now is just stupid, stupid, stupid.

Let's talk about why.

1. Does everyone realize what 'rebuild' means? Typically, it means offloading your expensive players to make room for cheaper ones that need experience. All of our cheap talent is already playing. We have no position players in the minors that are worth clearing a spot for. All of our high priced players are unmoveable. We have one (aybar), maybe two (smith) moveable contracts that expire after 2016. We have a bunch of other players (richards, santiago, calhoun, and a slew of young pitchers) that are under control for 2-6 years. The bulk of our expensive contracts expire after 2016 and 2017 leaving us with all of two of them. One of which is an albatross. The other is worth it. You're still stuck with the albatross no matter what you do.

1b. Stop with the phills reference. It's not even close to accurate. In 2012 when they won 81 games, their best player was a 33yo Utley and a 28yo Hamels. Everyone else on the team was shit or old or both. They also didn't have a 24yo Mike Trout and they didn't have a solid core of starting pitching. Their farm was even more horrendous.

2. Does everyone realize how long it takes to rebuild? We currently have a weak farm system. We blew our foreign load on one guy. So we are gonna take our core of club controlled players and trade them for a bunch of unproven talent? Why? So the collective is a little better than what we currently have? Again, the goal of a rebuild is to move your high priced talent in exchange for young, club controlled talent. We don't have any moveable high priced talent except for that one guy. So we might hasten the strength of the farm yet we'd still have to wait for them to develop. An of course with prospects comes risk.

3. We have Mike Trout. Let me write that again. We have Mike Trout. The best player in baseball. A guy who looks to be an inner circle hall of famer. He's ours for the next five years. But we're gonna just waste anywhere from 40-60% of that time?

4. As intimated above, our payroll situation isn't as bad as it seems. We'll have one albatross salary after 2017 and it's ours regardless of whether we rebuild, stand pat, spend another billion, or jump up and down and sing I'm henry the eighth. Adding a little payroll for next year is tight, but not nuts. By 2018 it's manageable again. Especially if the contracts you add expire within 3-4 years.

5. We won 98 games last year. I'm gonna concede that we had some really good years from guys that may not do it again, but this year we had some really awful performances. Ones that if replaced with league average talent can make a huge difference. LF went from slightly above average to a disaster. 2b went from very good to weak. Two starters got worse and our catcher crapped the bed. Imagine just mediocrity in those spots. It doesn't make us 98 wins good, but probably somewhere between this year and last. That's around 90 wins.

Bottom line is that you don't waste seasons of Mike Trout. Particularly when you have immovable contracts, a limited farm system, and a decent core of young players at the major league level. Go get a solid left fielder. Overpay a bit if you have to. Trade Santiago for a young club controlled 2bman with potential and a pen arm. Add another pen arm. Get a stop gap 3bman to platoon with cowart.

Take a look at some of the other teams that are in playoff contention. There isn't one team in the AL that scares me for next year.

How would this look:

Zobrist 2b, Gordon LF, Prado at 3b (trade with fla) and Tyler Clippard in the pen.

Why guarantee yourself a losing season while you are still stuck with the players you'd like to but can't get rid of?

You know Doc, you're really going to have to start taking Bryce Harper a little more seriously. He's still only 22 and he's having a much greater season than Trout's MVP season. Trout is amazing but Harper is soo much better at the plate. .330+ power hitters with an over .1000+ ops don't come around very often.

[AngelsLakersFan]

You know Doc, you're really going to have to start taking Bryce Harper a little more seriously. He's still only 22 and he's having a much greater season than Trout's MVP season. Trout is amazing but Harper is soo much better at the plate. .330+ power hitters with an over .1000+ ops don't come around very often.

 

You could make the argument that Harper is better but I'm sure 2/3rds of GM's would take Trout over Harper right now. Trout is also still the best value asset any team has hands down, and for the foreseeable future as well.

[VariousCrap]

We don't have to sign Price, Cespedes, and Zobrist to make this team a playoff contender.  That's my point.  

 

 

I don't agree with this.  You have to remember that the Rangers and Astros will get better in the offseason.  The Angels have to get not only better than they are this year, they have to make gains on the Rangers and Astros too.  I'm not saying the Angels only have to sign the top free agents, but they need to bring in some good free agents to help this team.

[Ohtaniland]

You could make the argument that Harper is better but I'm sure 2/3rds of GM's would take Trout over Harper right now. Trout is also still the best value asset any team has hands down, and for the foreseeable future as well.

Bryce Harper is still under cost control. He still hasn't hit Arb 1 yet.

He's hitting .343....what MLB player does that anymore?

[Docwaukee]

Good points.

Unfortunately, it's hard to say what to expect when the front office is in shambles. Can't really compare one of the best run organizations ever to the Angels. 

 

 

Hopefully the collection of young starting pitchers meet the high expectations many of you guys seem to have.

you'd be surprised at how close the franchises are in terms of wins and success since 2002.  They have two more playoff appearances (soon to be 3), and one more WS win.  That also has to do with their competition.  

 

But the top 3 teams in that division are probably better than the top 3 in the AL west going forward for awhile.  You look at them right now, and they certainly have the edge on how their pitching has performed, but their lineup is actually pretty pedestrian.