WEAVER PITCHING ON THE ROAD DEFIES LOGIC

[Guest]

What does the offense have to do with Weaver's poor road performance?  

The points about offense are merely a rebuttal to those shrugging their shoulders and saying "we would have lost anyway due to the offense not scoring". Had the game been close to scoreless, the offense will approach the game competley differently. It's not apples to apples.

[ELEVEN]

Someone needs to step up and follow the team on the road with an inflatable rock pile. I nominate LT, anyone know what he's up to?

Inflatable Rock Pile...

I'd hit it.

[Guest]

Well I mean, who else was going to start?

Jarrod Washburn

[laagamer]

To add on to this thought, it's not so much about motivation as it is about change in approach. If you're playing a game from behind, you're more likely to expand the zone and attempt to hit 5 run home runs instead of going for simple base hits, sac flies etc. that might result in a much higher probability of scoring one or two runs. 

 

Really? I'd say the change in approach when down by 3 or so runs is to get on base. But I can definitely see your point. 

[tomsred]

Poozy I get the frustration but until we score a single run then it doesn't matter who started. Also show me a team that has playoff aspirations that move pitchers around in the rotation to pitch them only when they are at home.

 

Let's take tonight as an example, why do the Astros bother to start Keuchel on the road, he's 4-8?  At home he's 14-0.  

[tomsred]

he's not actually criticizing dipoto in that post. he's saying the pitching was an illusion. i said the same thing all year, but the present is the only thing that matters.

 

That's exactly what I was saying, Poozy took it the wrong way.  I liked a lot of what Dipoto did (not everything), and I've said it repeatedly.  The big thing I didn't like was the end.  When I said "we" I meant the posters here, and some of Scotty's comments in particular, and by the way that included me.  We have been lulled to sleep thinking the pitching is really strong and deep, and tradeable in some circumstances.  I no long think that way.  I posted about a little over a month ago that Weaver and Wilson were showing serious wear,  Richards has not truly rebounded to where he was in 2014, but he's getting closer.  Heaney is still very young, many times there is a sophomore slump as the league adjusts to him, and he will have to respond.  There is no guarantee that Skaggs will be at 100% next year, he's going to be rusty at least.  Shoemaker had a great 2014, and a disappointing 2015 (very inconsistent).  Tropeano, ugh, not sure about him at all. Newcomb, Ellis and Smith = prospects, all maybe's and none are quite ready yet, can't count on any of them to suddenly boost the team for maybe another year.

 

I like the fact that these guys outside of Weaver and Wilson are young, that's good, real good.  None of them strike me as great pitchers yet, ace level.  Where's the depth in this?  What am I missing?  We're a couple of more Tommy John's away from a meltdown.  Also add to this that the bullpen is 17 out 30 major league teams in ERA, and we have a relatively old closer combined with a setup man who's had at least an off year this year to be charitable.  To get to this point Dipoto did give up Kendrick and Jepsen, both would have been real useful this year.  He did get Heaney, who has helped.  

 

I'm just real concerned that we don't have a dominant ace type, much bullpen speed (outside of Gott), and still not enough depth to offset injury and poor performances.  On top of all that, the offense needs considerable attention....

 

That's a lot of work for the new GM. 

Edited September 22, 2015 by tomsred

[NrM]

That's exactly what I was saying, Poozy took it the wrong way.  I liked a lot of what Dipoto did (not everything), and I've said it repeatedly.  The big thing I didn't like was the end.  When I said "we" I meant the posters here, and some of Scotty's comments in particular, and by the way that included me.  We have been lulled to sleep thinking the pitching is really strong and deep, and tradeable in some circumstances.  I no long think that way.  I posted about a little over a month ago that Weaver and Wilson were showing serious wear,  Richards has not truly rebounded to where he was in 2014, but he's getting closer.  Heaney is still very young, many times there is a sophomore slump as the league adjusts to him, and he will have to respond.  There is no guarantee that Skaggs will be at 100% next year, he's going to be rusty at least.  Shoemaker had a great 2014, and a disappointing 2015 (very inconsistent).  Tropeano, ugh, not sure about him at all. Newcomb, Ellis and Smith = prospects, all maybe's and none are quite ready yet, can't count on any of them to suddenly boost the team for maybe another year.

 

 

I'm just real concerned that we don't have a dominant ace type, much bullpen speed (outside of Gott), and still not enough depth to offset injury and poor performances.  On top of all that, the offense needs considerable attention....

 

That's a lot of work for the new GM. 

I guess we're both in agreement then. I'm also not very confident in our young starting pitchers going forward.

Seems like we're putting all our hope in unproven talent that only seem to be regarded highly by us.

 

my bad on the previous post.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Poozy

[tennischmp]

Let's take tonight as an example, why do the Astros bother to start Keuchel on the road, he's 4-8? At home he's 14-0.

What's his ERA and WHIP on the road? I bet it's much better than Weaver's.

[ABC]

Let's take tonight as an example, why do the Astros bother to start Keuchel on the road, he's 4-8?  At home he's 14-0.  

 

the stuff that people post smh

 

Road WHIP 1.16

 

#lol@oldschoolstats

[Hollyw00d]

Let's take tonight as an example, why do the Astros bother to start Keuchel on the road, he's 4-8? At home he's 14-0.

Lol @ comparing keuchel to weaver.

Retarded.

[Guest]

Really? I'd say the change in approach when down by 3 or so runs is to get on base. But I can definitely see your point. 

Ideally true, but in a real world game with emotions involved (at least in the low levels in which I played) when far behind or dealing with the expectation a bad pitcehr could allow a ton of runs it's easy to let emotions take over and press harder to try to make big plays like HR's happen. 

[Pujols4MVP]

Kinda like Santana in 2007 when he had great numbers at Home but got pwned on the Road.

[Angel Oracle]

Keuchel road numbers >>>>>>>>>> Weave road numbers.   Only the W/L is similar.

[tomsred]

I didn't say anything about those other numbers.  Yes, I agree that Keuchel is way better than Weaver, obviously.  I just said that pitchers don't win on the road as well as they win at home.  Perhaps that's because the home parks are suited to them in some way.  We are back to the question of only playing certain pitchers at home, who does that?  I'm not aware of any team that does it.  It might be ground breaking for someone to try it, but it sure would screw up pitching routines and rotations, and would that be worth it?

[ettin]

Remember all that starting pitcher depth we talked about having, and Dipoto sacrificing offense for extra starters - where are they now?

They are down on the farm not making a Major League minimum salary because all of our money is tied up in two nearly $20MM pitchers....

[tennischmp]

I didn't say anything about those other numbers.  Yes, I agree that Keuchel is way better than Weaver, obviously.  I just said that pitchers don't win on the road as well as they win at home.  Perhaps that's because the home parks are suited to them in some way.  We are back to the question of only playing certain pitchers at home, who does that?  I'm not aware of any team that does it.  It might be ground breaking for someone to try it, but it sure would screw up pitching routines and rotations, and would that be worth it?

Yea pitchers might not win on the road as well as at home but they do pitch well. Weaver doesn't win or pitch well. Oh and I think the W/L records being worse have more to do with the offenses not hitting as well on the road

[Guest]

I didn't say anything about those other numbers. Yes, I agree that Keuchel is way better than Weaver, obviously. I just said that pitchers don't win on the road as well as they win at home. Perhaps that's because the home parks are suited to them in some way. We are back to the question of only playing certain pitchers at home, who does that? I'm not aware of any team that does it. It might be ground breaking for someone to try it, but it sure would screw up pitching routines and rotations, and would that be worth it?

The approach would likely require a thinner bench and carrying multiple long-relief/spot starters on the roster who could start on scheduled Weaver road games, then act in long relief otherwise.

Conversely, Weaver could pitch in relief in blowouts during road trips himself to get work in.

Edited September 22, 2015 by ScottLux

[tomsred]

Or maybe he pitches as a starter at home, relief on the road. Then we find a starter for the road, who does relief at home? Then again, maybe pitchers can't stay sharp doing that?

[tomsred]

They are down on the farm not making a Major League minimum salary because all of our money is tied up in two nearly $20MM pitchers....

So do you think Newcomb, Ellis and Smith should be up here now? Are they ready for prime time?

I guess they will have to be in 2017 because Weaver and Wilson will certainly not be extended based on this year's performance.

Edited September 22, 2015 by tomsred