So about Obama being a Muslim...

[Glen]

You sure did clump all religions together there, well done.

Sin and forgiveness is not part of all religions.

Admittedly, my post was ridiculous. I was just parroting Juan.

[Angelsjunky]

I'm saying that the physical universe, no matter the theory, has to have had a beginning. It could have expanded and contracted a trillion times or there could be trillions of universes, but there had to be a beginning. 

 

http://gizmodo.com/5904714/mathematic-proof-that-the-universe-had-a-beginning

 

Why does it "have to" have had a beginning? How can you or I know for sure?

 

And even if it did, which may or may not be the case, I still don't think that necessarily proves the existence of God, at least not in the way that you want it to, and certainly not necessarily the Christian creator being.

 

That said, I think the Hindus have the best philosophical conception of what "God" is.

[Angelsjunky]

There is plenty of static, AJ.

LOL.

[Angelsjunky]

You can act morally and not be religious, and you can choose to follow a moral code for whatever reason, but you can't claim that that moral code is universal, static, and intrinsic. This isn't that hard a concept to grasp. MOST good atheist philosophers agree with this- this isn't something I made up. 

 

This can be a tough thing to deal with for many atheists so they invent things like this: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Existentialism

 

One could also argue that the truths of existentialism are tough for religious believers to deal with, so they invent concepts like "God." Much tidier that way - no loose ends, no uncertainty, and ultimately no real free will or responsibility.

[TobiasFunke]

I must admit, reading AJ and Juan going back and forth is like sitting in a 8am Junior College Philosophy class.

[nate]

I must admit, reading AJ and Juan going back and forth is like sitting in a 8am Junior College Philosophy class.

 

I swear it is Rush Limbaugh vs Bill Maher.

[juansavage1]

Once again, believing in God is not the only way to have strong morals.

Once again, I agree with you. An atheist can decide to have "morals" and follow them. The morals are just his imagination. 

[TobiasFunke]

So is believing in God

 

BOOM!

 

Ok, sorry, I just had to say it. j/k, didn't mean to offend MT, Tank, and everyone else. Move along.

[mtangelsfan]

lol

[Tank]

So is believing in God

 

BOOM!

 

Ok, sorry, I just had to say it. j/k, didn't mean to offend MT, Tank, and everyone else. Move along.

 

you know how players dump gatorade over the guy being interviewed or smack him in the face with shaving cream? expect that the next time i see you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

even though we've never met, i have no idea what you look like, and i haven't been to an aw.com event in a few years.

[juansavage1]

It is a waste of my time honestly to respond to everything you said and all the assumptions.

 

Fundamentally, having boundaries because of religion or just self ascribed morals is not what matters.  It is the ability to live by them.  There are plenty of Christians that have been murderers and plenty of atheists who have been philanthropists.  The things you are saying are just another version of prejudice.

 

I have religious friends who live a much more "sinful" life than I ever have.  I also have religious friends who are very strict about their beliefs and live by them.  It is human nature to react to our feelings and emotions.

What you think matters or not isn't important. What matters is what makes logical sense. 

 

having boundaries because of religion or just self ascribed morals is not what matters.  It is the ability to live by them.

This makes no sense to me. You're saying that it doesn't matter what the morals are or if they're "true" but wheter you can follow the things you made up. I guarantee that everybody can live by the morals they make up for themselves. 

[juansavage1]

Juan, the Christian moral code isn't "universal, static, and intrinsic." You claim that it is, but that's just your belief.

Yes. That's my claim. Are you saying that your moral code is or that you accept that yours is personal and local?

[juansavage1]

I must admit, reading AJ and Juan going back and forth is like sitting in a 8am Junior College Philosophy class.

What I'm saying is basic philosophy. I'm kind of surprised that many here don't know it. 

[juansavage1]

One could also argue that the truths of existentialism are tough for religious believers to deal with, so they invent concepts like "God." Much tidier that way - no loose ends, no uncertainty, and ultimately no real free will or responsibility.

If you knew about existentialism, they don't say that there are truths regarding ethics or the meaning of life. We can live a life of meaning by making up that meaning and acting. 

[juansavage1]

Why does it "have to" have had a beginning? How can you or I know for sure?

 

And even if it did, which may or may not be the case, I still don't think that necessarily proves the existence of God, at least not in the way that you want it to, and certainly not necessarily the Christian creator being.

 

That said, I think the Hindus have the best philosophical conception of what "God" is.

Well, one is rational. The assumption is that everything has a cause and that things can't cause themselves. 

 

Another is mathematical. This, I'm not qualified to comment on, but I linked to a paper from people who are. 

 

Another is observation. We can see that the universe has a point from which it expanded. We've never seen other universes or multiple universes. 

 

If the universe has a cause, what would be the qualities of that cause? Wouldn't that look a lot like God?

[nate]

What you think matters or not isn't important. What matters is what makes logical sense. 

 

This makes no sense to me. You're saying that it doesn't matter what the morals are or if they're "true" but wheter you can follow the things you made up. I guarantee that everybody can live by the morals they make up for themselves. 

 

Everyone other than Christians believes the bible is made up.  Your condescending remarks calling my morals "made up" are ridiculous.

 

No matter what set of rules you live by, it only matters if you stick to them.  Like I said, plenty of Christians commit murder, therefore being a Christian and having God's "rules" didn't matter because they didn't live by them.  I seriously doubt that there is even one Christian in public office that follows the laws set in the bible.

[TobiasFunke]

Tank, I'm a chubby, balding, Mexican dude. Look for me next time at the AW lawn bowling get together.

[InsideThePark]

Well, one is rational. The assumption is that everything has a cause and that things can't cause themselves.

Another is mathematical. This, I'm not qualified to comment on, but I linked to a paper from people who are.

Another is observation. We can see that the universe has a point from which it expanded. We've never seen other universes or multiple universes.

If the universe has a cause, what would be the qualities of that cause? Wouldn't that look a lot like God?

Except we could be the effect and not the cause. In which case, your God would not be required. I know you mean "cause" in the sense of that all this has to mean something but the truth is that there's been thousands of other religions with people who wanted to believe the same. For me, I can't accept the word of man when it comes to a higher power. Obviously others have more faith that they're getting the truth.

[Angelsjunky]

I swear it is Rush Limbaugh vs Bill Maher.

 

I can live with that, as I dig Maher.

 

Once again, I agree with you. An atheist can decide to have "morals" and follow them. The morals are just his imagination. 

 

LOL. I'm guessing the irony is lost on you.

 

Yes. That's my claim. Are you saying that your moral code is or that you accept that yours is personal and local?

 

I accept that my moral code is this: the best that I can do. It is based upon my own reason and intuition of what is good.

 

Here's the difference: you claim that your moral code is handed to you from a divine being, but from my perspective it is just a moral code that you choose to subscribe to.

 

If you knew about existentialism, they don't say that there are truths regarding ethics or the meaning of life. We can live a life of meaning by making up that meaning and acting. 

 

I know a bit about existentialism and I realize that an existentialist believes that there is no intrinsic meaning or moral code to the universe, that one must create it oneself. Makes a lot of sense to me. I'd even say that a believer does just that. But rather than create their own, they buy a "pre-packaged product," so to speak.

Edited September 21, 2015 by Angelsjunky

[Angelsjunky]

Well, one is rational. The assumption is that everything has a cause and that things can't cause themselves. 

 

Another is mathematical. This, I'm not qualified to comment on, but I linked to a paper from people who are. 

 

Another is observation. We can see that the universe has a point from which it expanded. We've never seen other universes or multiple universes. 

 

If the universe has a cause, what would be the qualities of that cause? Wouldn't that look a lot like God?

 

That's one way of explaining it. There are others.

[juansavage1]

Everyone other than Christians believes the bible is made up.  Your condescending remarks calling my morals "made up" are ridiculous.

 

No matter what set of rules you live by, it only matters if you stick to them.  Like I said, plenty of Christians commit murder, therefore being a Christian and having God's "rules" didn't matter because they didn't live by them.  I seriously doubt that there is even one Christian in public office that follows the laws set in the bible.

I was watching this Mafia documentary on Netflix. They made up their own set of ethics and most followed them until the 80s. Is that what matters to you? 

 

I think your line of reasoning isn't very well thought out. 

 

You are offended that I said your morals are made up and then proceed to say that it doesn't matter if morals are made up. 

[juansavage1]

I can live with that, as I dig Maher.

 

 

LOL. I'm guessing the irony is lost on you.

 

 

I know that you think my religion is made up. I'm just telling you that if it's true, then I'm following the truth. Let's see if we can agree on this. 

 

Let's say a person follows a religion because he thinks it's true. It may or may not be true, but the person is sincere and making a rational choice. 

 

Another follows a religion he knows can't be true because he likes. it- it gives him comfort.  You're like the second guy. 

 

Whatever moral code you follow can't possibly be "the truth"- only what you want through disposition and nurture. If you can admit that, then we would have made progress. 

[nate]

Costa Nostra is insanely Catholic.  Good point.

[juansavage1]

Costa Nostra is insanely Catholic.  Good point.

Well, it used Catholic imagery. Mexican drug lords to it today. So did Madonna. 

[Adam]

Take a break guys. We need to figure out a way to get a couple wins in Houston. Not feeling too optimistic.