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Mike Clevinger has been impressive since being traded


Hufflepuff

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the trade was very much worth it at the time.  The Angels were making a layoff run, were looking for additional bullpen help, Clevinger wasn't healthy, Pestano had a solid track record and was dominant in AAA. He looked good after the Angels brought him in.  It sucks he went to crap this year, but I think most of us probably thought he'd be a good middle reliever for a couple years.  It just didn't happen. 

 

However, right on cue, Pestano looks really good in AAA again this year. 

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  • 2 months later...

From John Sickels' Cleveland Indians Top 20 prospects for 2016

3) Mike Clevinger, RHP, Grade B+: Age 24, Tommy John survivor stolen from Angels in 2014, posted 2.73 ERA with 145/40 K/BB in 158 innings in Double-A, command has improved tremendously over last three seasons and he has the stuff to back that up. Should be ready for rotation trial sometime in 2016. I will post full comment in discussion thread tomorrow.

 

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2015/11/28/9812550/cleveland-indians-top-20-prospects-for-2016

 

 

That would make him #1 in the Angels' system.

Edited by John Smith
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I'll translate this into what it would read if he were still in the Halo's system:

 

3) Mike Clevinger, RHP, Grade C+: Age 24, Tommy John survivor with persistent control issues.  Has an outside chance of remaining a starter as he does have some upside, but likely ends up as a middle to back end bullpen arm.  Could see some time this year, but likely 2017.  

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I'll translate this into what it would read if he were still in the Halo's system:

 

3) Mike Clevinger, RHP, Grade C+: Age 24, Tommy John survivor with persistent control issues.  Has an outside chance of remaining a starter as he does have some upside, but likely ends up as a middle to back end bullpen arm.  Could see some time this year, but likely 2017.  

 

Yup, couldn't have said it better myself.  I don't think this one is as much an East Coast-West Coast thing as much as it is a stigma that bad farm systems produce bad players.  I mean if that were the case, how the heck did we help produce Corbin, Skaggs, Richards, Calhoun, Trout, Grichuk, Segura and Cron, all in a very short period of time?

 

I think the truth is, the Angels had a VERY strong farm in 2007-2013 that was constantly being under-appreciated by the media in favor of a darling time back East.  I mean Skaggs was good with us, and as soon a we trade him away, they think he's brilliant.  Grichuk while with the Angels was an ok OF with some power and OBP issues, and as soon as St. Louis targeted him, he became a great fielder with elite power and a future all-star.  Same thing happened with Segura.  Same thing with Chris Ellis this year.   

 

But when we traded for Skaggs, it was because he had mechanical troubles and lost his velocity, and when we brought in Heaney, it clearly meant that his stuff just didn't translate to the majors.

 

As far as Clevinger goes, yeah, he's really good.  He was before the TJ surgery and would continue to be after.  But which Angel prospects do you think would be more highly thought of if the Angels traded them?  Probably Kyle McGowin, Chad Hinshaw, Joe Gatto, Kyle Kubitza and Nick Tropeano. 

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Sickels is pretty unbiased. Also, Grichuk wasn't better regarded when the Cardinals targeted him, but when he took a step forward and put up an .877 OPS for them this year. Segura had one great year and has been pretty bad since. Skaggs was well regarded as an Angel, by Sickels no less who called him "supremely projectable" in his 2010 prospect rankings. It is just that he took a step forward and continued to develop well with the Diamondbacks.

 

I don't think this is a matter of East Coast Bias or Bad Farm System Bias...but simply a bad farm system. The Angels are notoriously poor at scouting international players and I'm thinking not so great at player development either. Think of how highly regarded their farm system was ten years ago and how few of those former top prospects actually turned out. If the Angels have a bias against them it is because their track record for player development isn't so great. So yeah, maybe you're partially right - a touch of Bad Farm System Bias, but it is well deserved, in my opinion.

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I've read comments from Indians people who feel confident enough in him that the team should trade Carrasco, Salazar or Bauer for bats and to just plug Clevinger into the rotation. 

 

I always thought the guy could end up being a useful bullpen arm but I wasn't upset when he got traded. Now, he has some possible mid rotation upside. Go figure. 

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Sickels is pretty unbiased. Also, Grichuk wasn't better regarded when the Cardinals targeted him, but when he took a step forward and put up an .877 OPS for them this year. Segura had one great year and has been pretty bad since. Skaggs was well regarded as an Angel, by Sickels no less who called him "supremely projectable" in his 2010 prospect rankings. It is just that he took a step forward and continued to develop well with the Diamondbacks.

 

I don't think this is a matter of East Coast Bias or Bad Farm System Bias...but simply a bad farm system. The Angels are notoriously poor at scouting international players and I'm thinking not so great at player development either. Think of how highly regarded their farm system was ten years ago and how few of those former top prospects actually turned out. If the Angels have a bias against them it is because their track record for player development isn't so great. So yeah, maybe you're partially right - a touch of Bad Farm System Bias, but it is well deserved, in my opinion.

 

I agree -- Sickles is about as good as it gets and there isn't a tinge of bias with him.   I disagree with your statement about the Angels farm system of ten years ago having busted --  while many of the the hyped guys crapped out, the second tier guys all panned out and went on to have very productive careers -- then there is Howie Kendrick who has been labeled a bust by many.  I think the misses/hype there had more to do with minor league sites being overly hung up on traditional triple slash stats vs predictive stats and a tendency to completely ignore park and league tendencies.... an issue that is still evident today.  Randal Grichuk is a pretty solid example of a guy who's predictors said one thing and his counting stats another.  

 

Kyle McGowin may be our current Clevinger -- dude looked legit, got hurt and came back very tentative with his stuff and ended up being hit hard.    McGowin posted above league average numbers in just about every predictive stat, and has historically done a good job of inducing a lot of ground balls.    He sits 91-93 with his FB, slider comes in at the upper 70s -- maybe touches 80 but it has some serious hard break.  His change shows some fade, he's shown some real feel for it and has a tendency to pitch backwards.   He's kind of been a guy people talked about since his days at Savanna State, so he's not an unknown -- but he's a good candidate to up his game and his profile this season.  It will be interesting to see how he does in the park in SLC where his GB tendencies may help him.

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I agree -- Sickles is about as good as it gets and there isn't a tinge of bias with him.   I disagree with your statement about the Angels farm system of ten years ago having busted --  while many of the the hyped guys crapped out, the second tier guys all panned out and went on to have very productive careers -- then there is Howie Kendrick who has been labeled a bust by many.  I think the misses/hype there had more to do with minor league sites being overly hung up on traditional triple slash stats vs predictive stats and a tendency to completely ignore park and league tendencies.... an issue that is still evident today.  Randal Grichuk is a pretty solid example of a guy who's predictors said one thing and his counting stats another.  

 

Kyle McGowin may be our current Clevinger -- dude looked legit, got hurt and came back very tentative with his stuff and ended up being hit hard.    McGowin posted above league average numbers in just about every predictive stat, and has historically done a good job of inducing a lot of ground balls.    He sits 91-93 with his FB, slider comes in at the upper 70s -- maybe touches 80 but it has some serious hard break.  His change shows some fade, he's shown some real feel for it and has a tendency to pitch backwards.   He's kind of been a guy people talked about since his days at Savanna State, so he's not an unknown -- but he's a good candidate to up his game and his profile this season.  It will be interesting to see how he does in the park in SLC where his GB tendencies may help him.

 

Yeah, McGowin's definitely one that I'l be keeping an eye on, mostly because I think the injury and subsequent rehab really sapped him.  He was out there being seemingly overly careful.  I like as either a starter or reliever. 

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