Pitching Moves To Be Made

[Tyler]

It's time to end the Hector Santiago as a starter experiment. There's a reason why he's never sniffed 200 innings in a season at any level in his 8+ professional seasons. Even when he had a hot first half it was 5 to 6 innings at the most. He's a middle reliever and nothing more. Our bullpen is gassed because of this, he is gassed because he is not built for this, and ultimately the team can get any momentum because of this.

 

Once rosters expand the Angels need to send him to the bullpen and see what they have in Tropeano in the rotation.

 

Garrett Richards, Jered Weaver, Andrew Heaney, Matt Shoemaker, and Nick Tropeano should be the rotation with Santiago taking over middle and long relief duties.

[Pujols4MVP]

No. Santiago is 1000% better than Weaver who will still have a roster spot next season.

Would rather Weaver be in the pen than Santiago.

 

Santiago's struggles probally have more to do with the Team Morale.

The players dont seem to care anymore for the season, losing balls in the sun etc.

[jsnpritchett]

No. Santiago is 1000% better than Weaver who will still have a roster spot next season.

Would rather Weaver be in the pen than Santiago.

 

Santiago's struggles probally have more to do with the Team Morale.

The players dont seem to care anymore for the season, losing balls in the sun etc.

 

His struggles have to do with an utter inability to finish off innings, and a tendency to completely lose his release point.  That's on him, not someone losing a ball in the sun.

[tdawg87]

Santiago is just regressing (sorry Eric) to his career norms. There was no way he was going to continue pitching the way he was.

Also, the entire pitching staff sucks right now. The pen is being taxed every night.

I get what you're saying about his inability to pitch deep into games, but even if he pitches 5-6 solid innings a night, that's 160-180 innings a year which is about average. Now if Trop can add 20 innings to that with the same effectiveness then obviously you have to look at that option.

I just think that over a full season Santiago is a valuable 3/4 guy.

[Dick B Back]

A guy that needs to draw lines on the mound to make him try and land in the right spot is asking for trouble.

He always has trouble repeating his delivery... blah blah, I'm beating a dead horse.

[laagamer]

I joke about selling the farm.

We can pick up pieces and compete next year IMO. An offensive piece and a front end SP would put us in contention for a playoff spot next year IMO.

Heyward would be ideal but I have no idea about a SP. Everyone is 30+ and would want big deals. Latos is 28 but I'm not sold on giving him front end money for middle rotation talent.

[laagamer]

Hell, worse comes to worse I might be happy with Heyward, Weiters, and an above average BP piece. Do we even have the money for that?

Start the damn young kids next year.

[Angel Oracle]

It's on the pitchers, but where is Mr. Sleeps Like A Baby while the pitching staff is imploding?

[VariousCrap]

I agree, Santiago should be the long man out of the pen next season.  He could be very good there.

 

The Angels have to sign Cueto or Price next offseason.  They need that type of ace.

 

Cueto/Price, Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Shoemaker should be the rotation.

 

If for some reason Skaggs isn't ready, you still have Weaver, Wilson or Tropeano.

[Reveille1984]

We really need to start rebuilding at some point, not worrying about giving a 30 year old pitcher a $200M contract. 

 

Look at our core right now.  Aybar is going to be 32.  Pujols is turning into a one-trick pony with the bat and moves more like he's 45 than 35.  LF, 2B, C and 3B are all black holes being filled with a rotating clown car of nobodies and fill-ins on the tail end of their careers.  Trout is the obvious saving grace of our franchise and Calhoun is a solid 3-4 WAR player, but our lineup is ultra mediocre outside of those two and trending downward.

[HaloCory22]

No. Santiago is 1000% better than Weaver who will still have a roster spot next season.

Would rather Weaver be in the pen than Santiago.

 

Santiago's struggles probally have more to do with the Team Morale.

The players dont seem to care anymore for the season, losing balls in the sun etc.

Santiago just isn't very good. He was dodging blowups left and right before the ASB. His ERA and FIP were over 1.50 different. He had downfall written all over him. I'd definitely try and trade him in the offseason. Sure, he's not a terrible 4/5 guy option but we can definitely upgrade.

[Pujols4MVP]

Santiago just isn't very good. He was dodging blowups left and right before the ASB. His ERA and FIP were over 1.50 different. He had downfall written all over him. I'd definitely try and trade him in the offseason. Sure, he's not a terrible 4/5 guy option but we can definitely upgrade.

 

Same could be said for Shoemaker who's imploded alot lately.

Unless there is a good trade to get a good bat for Santiago, he should stay since he's way much better than Weaver & Wilson at this point.

Wilson & Weaver as pitchers #4 & #5 in the rotation is scary. Maybe one of them is moved to pen & Skaggs joins the rotation.

Santiago is a sub 4.00 ERA guy since he joined the team good enough to be the #3 while we wait for Newcomb & Tropeano to be even good at the MLB level.

 

Richards/Heaney/Santiago/Shoemaker/Skaggs.

[Pujols4MVP]

Santiago is just regressing (sorry Eric) to his career norms. There was no way he was going to continue pitching the way he was.

Also, the entire pitching staff sucks right now. The pen is being taxed every night.

I get what you're saying about his inability to pitch deep into games, but even if he pitches 5-6 solid innings a night, that's 160-180 innings a year which is about average. Now if Trop can add 20 innings to that with the same effectiveness then obviously you have to look at that option.

I just think that over a full season Santiago is a valuable 3/4 guy.

 

This. Everyone is pitching bad lately.

Santiago is not horrible nor is he great.

Certainly better than Wilson.

[jsnpritchett]

We really need to start rebuilding at some point, not worrying about giving a 30 year old pitcher a $200M contract. 

 

Look at our core right now.  Aybar is going to be 32.  Pujols is turning into a one-trick pony with the bat and moves more like he's 45 than 35.  LF, 2B, C and 3B are all black holes being filled with a rotating clown car of nobodies and fill-ins on the tail end of their careers.  Trout is the obvious saving grace of our franchise and Calhoun is a solid 3-4 WAR player, but our lineup is ultra mediocre outside of those two and trending downward.

 

Yeah, in looking at the 40-man roster earlier today, I was shocked at just how low the overall talent level seems to be.  Yes, I'm sure Scotty or someone will jump in and tell me about all the great prospects we have in A-ball, but the fact of the matter is, the organization needs a complete talent overhaul, and it's not going to be easy to do.

[Angel Oracle]

Development overhaul would be useful too.

How many prospects have sailed through high-A ball, only to struggle totally in AA?

[Guest]

What makes you think a pitcher like Santiago would fare any better in the bullpen?

 

A relief pitcher needs to throw consistent strikes.

 

Hector Santiago == Nibs Jr.

[Angel Oracle]

Santiago is basically a Nibs clone.

He throws four different pitches, and tends to try to think too much on the mound instead of going all Erv and just pitching the #@$$% baseball.

[UndertheHalo]

Development overhaul would be useful too.

How many prospects have sailed through high-A ball, only to struggle totally in AA?

 

 

Santiago is basically a Nibs clone.

He throws four different pitches, and tends to try to think too much on the mound instead of going all Erv and just pitching the #@$$% baseball.

 

I definitely agree with AO on these two points, the Angels have not invested enough in development for far to long.  Its not Scoscia, its not DiPoto, etc, more then anything our woes are tied to weak development.  We are in general completely unable to plug holes and its killing the team.  

 

Santiago I agree is far to much like CJ, he is unable to finish counts way to often and will always burden the bullpen.  He's potentially a good guy out of the pen and that where we need to be going with him if he cant be traded.

[HaloCory22]

Same could be said for Shoemaker who's imploded alot lately.

Unless there is a good trade to get a good bat for Santiago, he should stay since he's way much better than Weaver & Wilson at this point.

Wilson & Weaver as pitchers #4 & #5 in the rotation is scary. Maybe one of them is moved to pen & Skaggs joins the rotation.

Santiago is a sub 4.00 ERA guy since he joined the team good enough to be the #3 while we wait for Newcomb & Tropeano to be even good at the MLB level.

 

Richards/Heaney/Santiago/Shoemaker/Skaggs.

Agreed. Same can be said about Shoe. Except Shoe sucked at first and then had a decent stretch. In 2016 I don't want either in the rotation if we can help it.

 

Ideally, Price/Richards/Heaney/Skaggs/CJ/Weaver would be solid. I'd also be okay with signing Zimmerman and Shark. Dealing away Hector, Shoe, and possibly CJ (If we can even find a home for him)

 

Zimmerman, Shark, Richards, Heaney, Skaggs looks way better. Pipe dream for sure though. I don't see Arte spending at least till the end of 2016 when CJ and Weaver's deals are through.

[Angel Oracle]

Zimmerman and Shark, as intriguing as each are due to being possible solid bargains, would necessitate losing the first round pick unless finishing with one of the ten worst records in MLB for 2015.

Shark now has AL experience with the A'th and ChiSox, while Zimmerman only has interleague experience vs the AL. 

 

Cueto wouldn't cost a first round pick, but the one uncertainty is that he only started pitching extensively vs the AL recently, and struggled in two recent starts.  

 

Price is probably the most likely to succeed if signing here, and wouldn't cost a draft pick.   But who knows how much he'll command, and can the Halos succeed with 3 or 4 lefties in their rotation by 2017 (Price, Heaney, Newcomb, and maybe Skaggs)?    Not many teams have succeeded with that many lefties.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Angel Oracle