Spin Forum Dumping Bin

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

The policy of securing our borders that federal government is responsible for and has failed at for decades?  I posted that article in response UTH's claim that certain ethnic groups are being interred.  Anyone coming through the border illegally that's apprehended is given the same treatment regardless of their ethnicity.   

[UndertheHalo]

1 hour ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

When I first started reading your discussion I wasn't even sure what you were talking about because we don't see it the same way.  What specific ethnic group is being interred?  I thought anyone coming to the country illegally that was apprehended would end up there:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/record-number-of-african-migrants-coming-to-mexican-border

These centers have existed and housed detainees long before Trump was president so I don't see what that has to do with his base other than when he brings it up to rile them up.  He didn't create them the feds are just enforcing the laws of the land and he's the first president in my lifetime to actually take a hard stance on the situation.  There's plenty of sound bites of people from both sides talking a good talk but as mentioned it's a political posturing.  What is your solution to the current situation going on at the border if you aren't in favor or in agreement with illegal immigrants being detained?  

Trumps administration is unnecessarily delaying asylum hearings and doing everything that they can stop these people from lawfully applying for whatever migrant status they’re pursuing.  And this idea that it’s not almost exclusively Hispanics that are being targeted is ridiculous.  Do you seriously think they’d treat white people like this ?

Trumps DHS let’s not forget also weaponized child separation.  Stop pretending that this is all business as usual. 

What is the “situation” at the border that requires this ridiculous hardline stance ? What is new in the last 20 years even ? Trump has taken the already shitty policies and taken them to an extreme that is unnecessary.  They’re keeping large numbers of people in inhumane conditions.  This is deliberate.  I’ll post some excerpts from the Trump administrations own report below.   To me it’s unacceptable.  I don’t give a shit who it is or where they’re from.  Turn them loose at the border and if they come again, so be it.  My opinion is that the principle issue is that Americans on this side of the border illegally provide these people with economic opportunities and if anyone is genuinely serious about curbing illegal immigration these are the people that need to be targeted.  The solution is not to treat these migrants like rats. As far as the people seeking asylum they should be processed and released. My understand is that almost always turn up for their hearings.  And hey, if they don’t.  Then I’m fine with a zero tolerance policy and immediate deportation. 

Single adults were held in cells designed for one-fifth as many detainees as were housed there and were wearing soiled clothing for days or weeks with limited access to showers, the report said. Pictures published with the report show women packed tightly together in a holding cell.

“We also observed detainees standing on toilets in the cells to make room and gain breathing space, thus limiting access to toilets,” the watchdog wrote.

[Rico]

It's legal for them to seek asylum. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

It's definitely not business as usual when 2/3 of the way through the current fiscal year more people than the prior year have been apprehended at the border.  Some of the people being apprehended are coming from other continents when they could be claiming asylum elsewhere.  What's led to the uptick and how are these people making it that far with little or no support is up for debate.  What's changed in the last 20 years - massive increase in the costs associated with illegal immigrants and more importantly 9/11 and how that changed the world as we know it and the need for greater security.  In order to claim asylum you generally have to be able to claim persecution based on "race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group" which it doesn't sound like applies to many of those interviewed as they make the trek.   I don't give a crap about Trump but you can't tell me people coming here illegally haven't been gaming the system for decades, look no further than those who have been here for 10+ years that never applied for citizenship.  I don't agree with certain methods but if the asshole in the white house taking a hard stance brings the situation to light and makes our elected officials address immigration and illegal immigration then hopefully some good can come from it.  Letting people think they can enter a country illegally and claim asylum for reasons other than those that are eligible is not just dangerous it's unsustainable. 

[UndertheHalo]

the massive costs associated with illegal immigration ? You act like there’s some specific massive bill that the tax payers are towing.  It’s not an easy thing to pin down.  How about the massive economic benefits that are reaped by the cheap labor they offer ? All the taxes they pay.  There’s no way to quantify this positively or negatively.  And I’m not going to agree with you on the eternal 9/11 boogeyman either.  Bad things happen.  Believe it or not the United States isn’t the only country that has endured tragedy.  I find it extremely unconvincing that the border genuinely represents some massive security threat.  Honestly, I think that point is complete bullshit.  And I mean no disrespect.  That’s how I feel about that. 

We aren’t going agree on this.  But I said it to tank and I’ll say it you.  I find it unfortunate and sad even that you know this is wrong but gee wiz.  We just have to do it. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

There's no way to quantify it exactly but many reports from the GOA or independent studies have shown a net cost from illegal immigrants.  Tragedy has nothing to do with securing the border there's a security risk in having people you have few or no records of who cross the border which is something the Eurozone has been dealing with.  In the last seven years the most refugees seeking asylum admitted in any one year in the US was under 85,000.  Being denied asylum doesn't mean they're deported as you can appeal to an immigration judge, then a board of immigration appeals, then a US court of appeals and then the supreme court which is obviously rare.  One of the things the current administration has been cracking down on are people who were denied asylum but remained in the country which is something previous administrations didn't do.  The system is broken if you can apply for asylum, be denied yet still stay in the country or simply break the law and come back illegally.  

The country is 22 trillion in debt not counting unfunded liabilities, wages have been stagnant for decades, healthcare costs are out of control, we can't afford to take care of our own, we stick our noses where it doesn't belong costing lives and money while making more enemies, the wealth gap grows while the middle class gets hammered and the list goes on. The majority of people coming across the southern border right now will not qualify for asylum and for decades people in that situation were able to stay despite being denied.   I find it unfortunate and sad that people are okay with a broken system that people take advantage while seemingly being okay with sticking with the status quo.  If it bothers you that much I implore you to dedicate your time, energy or money to do whatever you can to make the lives of illegal immigrants or even citizens in this country who need help better if you aren't already.   

I don't agree with the methods of delaying or treating people poorly but I also don't agree with a broken system that allows people to stay here illegally.  3 million people were granted amnesty under Reagan in 1986 and there's now an estimated 11-12M illegally in the country today.  In an ideal world the federal government would secure the borders, streamline the immigration process and actually deport people who break the law.  Unfortunately both parties have failed at this for decades because neither really wants to fix it for multiple reasons.

[Tank]

I agree with what cat has said in response in this thread. You’ve said it far better than I could.

when the words “concentration camp” are used, thoughts immediately turn to nazi Germany and their systematic attempt at the elimination of  Jews, Poles, Slavs, Gypsies, etc. That is NOT what is going on here.

people in these detention centers today are not being systematically starved to death, executed, worked to death, etc like happened in WWII. To compare the two situations is historically disingenuous.

While there are plenty of decent people trying to come here, there are also plenty of really nasty people trying to gain entrance or work the system. There is plenty of evidence about how bad some of these people are and the things they do once they arrive here.

I see lots of complaining but I have yet to see any viable alternatives offered, not here and certainly not from the chowder-headed do-nothings in Washington DC. 

Got a better solution than a detention center while people are being vetted? Let’s hear it.

[Lhalo]

WTF?

 

[Tank]

I saw something on Twitter that said she was dehydrated, fwiw.

[Lou]

8 hours ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

If it bothers you that much I implore you to dedicate your time, energy or money to do whatever you can to make the lives of illegal immigrants or even citizens in this country who need help better if you aren't already.

Bingo.

But we all know that bitching about it on a computer is as far as they'll go. 

[Lhalo]

7 hours ago, Tank said:

I saw something on Twitter that said she was dehydrated, fwiw.

Can she pitch?

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Lhalo said:

Can she pitch?

Yes, and she has a helluva change up.

[Rico]

 

 

[Make Angels Great Again]

Fear monger harder please.

[Jason]

9 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Fear monger harder please.

Fear sells 

[Rico]

 

 

[tdawg87]

But fear

[mtangelsfan]

Tweet, tweet, tweet 

[Tank]

Lots of complaining but absolutely no one is offering a way to fix this. #winning

[Blarg]

More combs?

[Lou]

Well, if they don't like it here, I have a solution...

[Blarg]

More combs?

[tdawg87]

11 hours ago, Tank said:

Lots of complaining but absolutely no one is offering a way to fix this. #winning

I have a radical and possibly controversial idea: Don't torture children and treat them lower than stray dogs at a pound. That would be a start IMHO

[Taylor]

49 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

I have a radical and possibly controversial idea: Don't torture children and treat them lower than stray dogs at a pound. That would be a start IMHO

Those children are getting what they deserve for convincing their parents to illegally immigrate here.

[Taylor]

17 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

Tweet, tweet, tweet 

Did you read the article?