Spin Forum Dumping Bin

[Tank]

I wish we would create another Ellis Island process for admitting immigrants. That system seemed to work pretty well and for a good long time. Maybe a couple of facilities to admit immigrants. I don’t ever recall reading about illegal immigration problems during that era. It may have happened, but it didn’t seem to be nearly the issue it’s been in the couple of decades.

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, Rico said:

Ok, quick Google search.  In the last month of Obama's administration ICE held roughly 39k people in detention. Two years later in October 2018 they held a record 44k people. 

Deportations by year. 235k in 2015, 240k in 2016, 226k in 2017, and 256k in 2018.

So deportations have only slightly increased, but deaths have doubled. 

You haven't posted any information about the death ratio, you've only made an unsupported statement that it has risen. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

11 hours ago, Rico said:

Ok, quick Google search.  In the last month of Obama's administration ICE held roughly 39k people in detention. Two years later in October 2018 they held a record 44k people. 

Deportations by year. 235k in 2015, 240k in 2016, 226k in 2017, and 256k in 2018.

So deportations have only slightly increased, but deaths have doubled. 

The total number of deaths increased which is an issue of volume (i.e. more people being detained at overcrowded facilities) but the rate per 100,000 detainees fell in 2018 while it was below the 15 year average .  You're now mentioning deportations because they haven't increased at the same rate as deaths implying it somehow strengthens your earlier criticism of the increase in total deaths.  The number of deportations has nothing to do with the number of detainee deaths.          

[Lou]

12 hours ago, Rico said:

So deportations have only slightly increased, but deaths have doubled. 

That isn't the ratio we asked about.

Nice try. 

[Adam]

This news seems like a good deterrent for illegal immigration

[Rico]

Why does ratio matter?  More people died.  You think the families of these people care about ratios.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

38 minutes ago, Rico said:

Why does ratio matter?  More people died.  You think the families of these people care about ratios.

The ratio matters because it puts it into context especially when you come along and post the total number in an attempt to criticize/blame the current administration.  Hardly a peep when this was happening under the prior administration because it didn't fit an agenda but now it's an issue.  Democrats laughed at the "manufactured" border crisis and when there really is one I've heard nothing about suggestions to fix or do anything about it while most of the sources that ridiculed the manufactured crisis don't spend as much time talking about the real one.  None of the main candidates have said much about it because like most politicians they're focused on the 2020 election.

Further to Adam and Geoff's follow up questions what did the detainees die of, how old were they, did they have health issues before they came here?  Over the years the deaths have been for various reasons due to the trek they made across a desert with little water/food (most will agree this is the biggest contributor), due to possible diseases or illnesses they had before they started the journey and the the list goes on.  No one in their right mind wants any of these people to die but their deaths are being politicized to fit an agenda.  Meanwhile we've got citizens who are homeless, veterans and elderly who can't afford to get by and yet people get up in arms when hundreds of millions are being spent on detainees here illegally and the fact that some have died in custody.  Both sides are equally to blame but it's deplorable to lay this at the feet of the other side to fit your narrative.  

[Lou]

Polanco is better than Trout because he has more hits. 

[Spirit]

1 hour ago, Rico said:

Why does ratio matter?  More people died.  You think the families of these people care about ratios.

 

I applaud this logic.  It can also be applied to the need for people to be more concerned about vehicle deaths, since there's more of those than gun deaths.

 

 

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Geoff said:

 

I applaud this logic.  It can also be applied to the need for people to be more concerned about vehicle deaths, since there's more of those than gun deaths.

 

 

Thoughts and Prayers, my friend

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

The ratio matters because it puts it into context especially when you come along and post the total number in an attempt to criticize/blame the current administration.  Hardly a peep when this was happening under the prior administration because it didn't fit an agenda but now it's an issue.  Democrats laughed at the "manufactured" border crisis and when there really is one I've heard nothing about suggestions to fix or do anything about it while most of the sources that ridiculed the manufactured crisis don't spend as much time talking about the real one.  None of the main candidates have said much about it because like most politicians they're focused on the 2020 election.

Further to Adam and Geoff's follow up questions what did the detainees die of, how old were they, did they have health issues before they came here?  Over the years the deaths have been for various reasons due to the trek they made across a desert with little water/food (most will agree this is the biggest contributor), due to possible diseases or illnesses they had before they started the journey and the the list goes on.  No one in their right mind wants any of these people to die but their deaths are being politicized to fit an agenda.  Meanwhile we've got citizens who are homeless, veterans and elderly who can't afford to get by and yet people get up in arms when hundreds of millions are being spent on detainees here illegally and the fact that some have died in custody.  Both sides are equally to blame but it's deplorable to lay this at the feet of the other side to fit your narrative.  

I'm pretty sure that ICE just goes around with their hit squads to thin them out. 

[Jason]

18 minutes ago, Geoff said:

 

I applaud this logic.  It can also be applied to the need for people to be more concerned about vehicle deaths, since there's more of those than gun deaths.

 

 

Or baseball bats killing more people than AR-15s. You can throw in prescription pills too. I guess doctors kill more people than the NRA

[Taylor]

15 hours ago, the dude abides said:

Uh oh!  Looks like Alex Jones (aka the Bob Woodward to many of our AW conservatives) may have sent some child porn from his computer.

False flag?

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiELXFfZBy2d3ZPkRnijtiJPgqGAgEKg8IACoHCAowhK-LAjD4ySww69W0BQ?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

 

This is an interesting podcast segment (from This American Life) about Alex Jones. Basically, his "origin story" that he tells people is completely false. It's worth a listen if you have 20 minutes.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/670/beware-the-jabberwock/act-two-4

[UndertheHalo]

16 hours ago, Tank said:

I wish we would create another Ellis Island process for admitting immigrants. That system seemed to work pretty well and for a good long time. Maybe a couple of facilities to admit immigrants. I don’t ever recall reading about illegal immigration problems during that era. It may have happened, but it didn’t seem to be nearly the issue it’s been in the couple of decades.

Hmmm.  Reconsider this.  

[Jason]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/deficits-exploding-and-neither-party-seems-to-care

 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Neither party really cares about the growing debt they just contribute to it in different ways to benefit themselves, their friends and to get re-elected.  All we will get is lip service until it's too late and they have no choice but to make draconian cuts.  From a political standpoint as long as you aren't the president/administration left holding the bag when the **** hits the fan it's not really your problem.  The middle class and people who have actually made it a point to try and save will get the shaft the most when they come up with new and creative ways to tax us, i.e. some kind of VAT tax in the future, taxing SS more than they already do and so on.  The reality though is that they confiscate the wealth of the top 1, 5 or even 10% and it wouldn't put much of a dent in the national debt and future unfunded liabilities.  

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/deficits-exploding-and-neither-party-seems-to-care

 

Because today’s story line is concentration camps.

[Spirit]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/deficits-exploding-and-neither-party-seems-to-care

 

 

Oh great.  Another both parties are the same story.

 

 

[UndertheHalo]

4 hours ago, Tank said:

Because today’s story line is concentration camps.

Story line ? I’m sure you understand that concentration camps don’t have to have people ovens to exist as concentration camps.  It is what it is.  Those are concentration camps.  The more interesting thing is whether that bothers you or not. 

[Adam]

It bothers me that there's an entity powerful enough to manage immigrant detention centers.

[Tank]

37 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Story line ? I’m sure you understand that concentration camps don’t have to have people ovens to exist as concentration camps.  It is what it is.  Those are concentration camps.  The more interesting thing is whether that bothers you or not. 

They’re not concentration camps. 

What bothers me is that congress continues to do nothing to reform the entire immigration system and process. They certainly complain about it quite a bit, but no one is doing anything to fix or change or improve it.

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, Tank said:

They’re not concentration camps. 

What bothers me is that congress continues to do nothing to reform the entire immigration system and process. They certainly complain about it quite a bit, but no one is doing anything to fix or change or improve it.

They are absolutely concentration camps.  Do you think the Japanese got put into concentration camps ? 

This is a specific ethnic group being interred in camps for what are ostensibly political reasons.   

And I also think it’s disappointing that you are apparently fine with these monstrosities. Nothing has changed that requires these camps.  They’re unnecessary and unethical.  They exist solely to throw red meat to the psychotic populist conservative base that Trump draws all of his political power from.  

 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

When I first started reading your discussion I wasn't even sure what you were talking about because we don't see it the same way.  What specific ethnic group is being interred?  I thought anyone coming to the country illegally that was apprehended would end up there:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/record-number-of-african-migrants-coming-to-mexican-border

These centers have existed and housed detainees long before Trump was president so I don't see what that has to do with his base other than when he brings it up to rile them up.  He didn't create them the feds are just enforcing the laws of the land and he's the first president in my lifetime to actually take a hard stance on the situation.  There's plenty of sound bites of people from both sides talking a good talk but as mentioned it's a political posturing.  What is your solution to the current situation going on at the border if you aren't in favor or in agreement with illegal immigrants being detained?  

[Rico]

1 hour ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

What specific ethnic group is being interred?  I thought anyone coming to the country illegally that was apprehended would end up there:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/record-number-of-african-migrants-coming-to-mexican-border

 

So this policy isn't being fueled by the administration's racism?  You provide evidence of this by pointing out... let's see...  other people of color that the administration is locking up? 

[Rico]

1. The term concentration camps pre-date the Nazi camps.

2. What is happening at the border 100% fits the textbook definition of what a concentration camp is.

3. The Nazi concentration camps didn't start off as death camps. It took years to get there.  This is just the early stages.