Jump to content
  • Welcome to AngelsWin.com

    AngelsWin.com - THE Internet Home for Angels fans! Unraveling Angels Baseball ... One Thread at a Time.

    Register today to join the most interactive online Angels community on the net!

    Once you're a member you'll see less advertisements. Become a Premium member and you won't see any ads! 

     

IGNORED

FALLEN ANGELS - How the Los Angeles Angels lost their organizational luster


Recommended Posts

Signing Pujols, Hamilton and Wilson also cost the Angels #1picks. Houston has built a great system by having a bad team at the MLB level for 10 years. The same can be said for the Pirates. The way you counteract this is by attacking aggressively the Foreign markets. The Angels have failed miserably here. Aybar is the only home grown Latin player in the kadt ten years. That is unacceptable. The scouting must improve. The new GM will have a very difficult job ahead.

 

Kendrys Morales? but yea agree with your point 100%

Edited by Poozy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the Angels stick to a "Dipoto Plan" I don't see them going after a guy like Heyward simply because of the loss of a draft pick.  Rather, I see them looking at Cespedes and/or Price.  Guys that were traded midseason won't have a pick attached to them.  Admittedly, there will be more competition for those guys and the Angels could get blown out of the water by teams like the Dodgers, Yanks, and Red Sox. 

 

I'm not sure about the direction of this team, but the article was well-written, balanced and thoughtful. 

 

Well Done...

 

(A-...or a 4 on a Four Point Rubric)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1.  The Angels need to look across the street to see how to manage assets and run an organization. 

 

2.  I wish Randal Grichuk was our left fielder.  

 

3.  Maybe the Halos get hot for a 2 month stretch and surprise all of us...if not Kings at Ducks across the street for a preseason battle on Sept 25th.  Preseason hockey is so much better than the shit product the Angels have been providing the last 3 weeks.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Concur, well structured piece.  Perhaps a bit too optimistic for my tastes, but lays it out logically.

 

The Angels could repair the <long standing> problems at 3B and C, find a serviceable LF, though none of that would mitigate the big hole in the MOTO that is Pujols.  As long as Scioscia is running the show, Pujols will bat cleanup with his unsettling trend of problems with RISP.  This will likely only get worse.  

 

The Angels are a slow, athletically challenged, station to station team.  They must hit with RISP to be successful as their ability to manufacture runs with speed is nonexistent beyond Trout, Calhoun, perhaps Aybar.  They must get younger and more athletic.  If they do, well, you still have the big hole.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think this offseason is going to prove just how much Moreno wants to win. Does he blow right pass the salary cap or will we see another offseason like the last two? My guess is that it'll be the latter as all we've heard the last few seasons is talk of budget and salary cap. 

 

 

This is the offseason where Arte will have to decide whether the Angels are going to be on the same level as teams like the Dodgers and Yankees or if they are going to be a step below.  This is the offseason where he will have to decide if he goes all in on Trout's prime years or he doesn't.

 

I think Arte has too much pride to let this team be a sub .500 team for the next few years while the Dodgers continue to pull in record crowds and get closer to the World Series.

 

The reality is, the Angels need a real ace.  That isn't Richards.  He is a #2 at best.  They also need a solid LF who can add some pop to this line-up.

 

1.  Sign Price or Cueto.

2.  Sign Cespedes or Upton or Heyward.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

good article. well written and very fair.

 

they need to avoid anymore bad contracts. they've wasted so much money in recent years on players who grossly underperformed or are playing elsewhere. gotta figure out a way to avoid doing this year in year out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great job AJ.  Nicely done.  A very complete and thoughtful synopsis of the last decade plus.  

 

I hope you done mind, but I would like to add a few thoughts.  

 

Arte runs this team as if he were an old school law man running a town in the old west.  He's emotional, convicted, principled, uncompromising, and enamored with every gunslinger that comes along and puts on a big show.  He's overly loyal and makes it very clear that he's the one in charge.  While he means well, baseball is one of the most nuanced businesses that exist and he's clearly not aware of where his role as owner stops and starts.  Pretty much everything that has gone wrong with this team over the last 5 years has his fingerprints on it somewhere.  

 

Don't underestimate his emotional response as the primary culprit to much of what we have seen.  

 

First off, the lack of foreign presence was purposeful.  While it's a hard pill to swallow watching teams with similar payrolls gobble up talent left and right, the Angels general lack of such was apparently done from moral high ground.  Luring foreign talent required a certain 'fortitude' and loose business practices that was not only illegal, but tended to exploit players and put them and their families at risk.  I can't totally blame him for not wanting to play that game.  

 

Second, much of the downfall started with Moreno witnessing Arod's hr off of Fuentes.  Or at least losing that series in general.  That was our best shot in the moreno era and I believe it devastated him.  He got a taste and it put him in desperation mode.  All that had Arte's name on it from that point has been anywhere from meh to an unmitigated disaster.   

 

A bit about the farm system.  

 

The 2010 draft was a disaster and set the farm back considerably.  After that, it was going nowhere fast due to zero foreign players being infused and giving away picks to sign free agents as well as using org currency for very little value in return.  

 

Before that, it was solid with the main misstep being Matt Harvey not signing.  

 

As of 2008, this org could still have Harvey, Corbin, Skaggs, Segura, Grichuk, Trumbo and Bourjos.   Granted, there would have been some shuffling of those guys, but as of today we have Freese, Salas, Skaggs, and Santiago instead.  Not a great exchange of org currency if you ask me.  

 

Also, invariably there is a major leaguer or two from each draft that emerges yet 2011 and 2012 don't look overly promising so far.  2013 and 2014 have a little potential but mostly because of Newcomb.  

 

Suffice to say I haven't been overly impressed with the last few years.  

 

The future of this franchise isn't as murky as one would be left to believe however and that is mostly because of Mike Trout.  The pitching core is also very solid.  But they do need to bring in and offensive star to put next to Trout.  

 

Wieters is gonna cost a fortune and he's a boras client.  I'm not a Heyward fan personally.  I still like Parra and maybe they could take a look at Desmond to play 2b and get him on the cheap because of his down year.  They are gonna need to trade for that star though as I don't think it would come from FA.  

 

This year isn't over btw.  They are capable of going on a run again.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good stuff, Doc. I realize now after writing this piece, which I did in its entirety yesterday morning, that I left a few major holes which you and others filled, namely:

 

- The 2010 draft is a huge part of why the minors is in shambles.

- The Gary Matthews Jr signing was the precursor to, and really the first of, the terrible big contracts that were taken on.

- Interesting tidbit about international signing and Arte's sense of morality. I'd like to believe that it is true, but not sure I do.

- Torii's signing and the lie he was sold before Hamilton was signed, and the irony that Torii has been a better player since and for much less.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a good article.  It does tend to focus on the negative, though.  Newcomb and Ellis are both looking like front of the rotation guys.  Add those two to Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, and the rotation looks better. 

 

I can also see why the team was excited by drafting Ward.  The Angels are in position to have starting pitching to trade, and that is a valuable commodity.  Close the hole in LF, and I think we could be back sooner rather than later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice work AJ. I usually just skim the long articles here, but that was imminently readable.

 

 

About scouting....one of the main things that the Cubs did during the regime change there, was to completely revamp and expand the scouting corps throughout the baseball world. They were at the bottom in spending on their farms and scouting levels, and are now near the top. That has paid dividends pretty quickly. (20-4 in August leads the majors) The next major move they made was to  bring in a manager who was proven to work well and relate to the younger players. We all know Joe, and he is working wonders in Chicago. Watching that team so reminds me of the 2002 Angels, who came from behind all season, and had a different hero every night.  If any of you haven't watched the Cubbies this season, well, check it out. It's exciting, never say die, smart defence...well you get my drift.

It is a 180 degree difference from watching the Halos...to loosly quote Torii.. "go through the motions"

 

The Halos need some serious attitude adjustment that just isn't going to happen under current management.

Edited by Homebrewer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nice work AJ. I usually just skim the long articles here, but that was imminently readable.

 

 

About scouting....one of the main things that the Cubs did during the regime change there, was to completely revamp and expand the scouting corps throughout the baseball world. They were at the bottom in spending on their farms and scouting levels, and are now near the top. That has paid dividends pretty quickly. (20-4 in August leads the majors) The next major move they made was to  bring in a manager who was proven to work well and relate to the younger players. We all know Joe, and he is working wonders in Chicago. Watching that team so reminds me of the 2002 Angels, who came from behind all season, and had a different hero every night.  If any of you haven't watched the Cubbies this season, well, check it out. It's exciting, never say die, smart defence...well you get my drift.

It is a 180 degree difference from watching the Halos...to loosly quote Torii.. "go through the motions"

 

The Halos need some serious attitude adjustment that just isn't going to happen under current management.

 

Thanks, Homebrewer. Just one comment - the big difference between the 2002 Angels and 2015 Cubs is that the latter is flush with young talent and will be a powerhouse for years to come. Consider that Rizzo, Castro, Russell, Bryant, Soler and Schwarber are all 25 or younger. Unbelievable young talent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wasn't so much talking about/comparing the makeup or age of the two teams, but more the intensity and brains they play the game with.

Expanding and spending really serious $$$ on scouting at all levels, and development of younger talent, is the new way to build a team that lasts for many seasons...The Cubs and Astros have shown it doesn't take long at all to do it, but it does cost money and takes talent and foresight.

 

If the Angels can keep their young pitching core together, and draft and scout and develop...even trade for some key youngsters if need be...they can be right back in the mix in a couple short years.

Edited by Homebrewer
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great article. In regards to this offseason, this would be my preference:

 

1. Sign Jason Heyward

 

Even if the Angels are interested in retooling a bit, Heyward is young and smack in the middle of his prime. A Calhoun-Trout-Heyward outfield gives the Angels a legitimate outfield for the next 4+years. If the Angels can spend a lot on old, aging players, then they sure as hell can spend the money on a 5+ WAR player who is young and fixes a huge hole in LF(or RF).

 

2. Re-Sign Chris Iannetta

 

No, he hasn't been good this year but Iannetta has a track record of getting on base and he's even improved his pitch framing drastically this year. This down season kills his free agent market so a 1 year flier on him would be fine. You can't go into next season hoping a Perez/Bandy platoon will get it done.

 

3. Sign Asdrubal Cabrera

 

Cabrera is quietly having a solid 2+ WAR season and makes a lot of sense as a 2 year option who can play 2B/SS/3B. Baldoquin was supposed to be the quick riser to take over at 2B in 2016 but that's out of the question now. Cabrera gives you league average offense and decent defense and probably gets overlooked due to Kendrick & Zobrist being FA this offseason.

 

4. Trade 2 of Nate Smith, Nick Tropeano and Hector Santiago for bats

 

The team has a wealth of starting pitching who can contribute in 2016. Richards, Heaney, Santiago, Skaggs, Shoemaker, Weaver, Wilson, Tropeano, Newcomb, Ellis and Smith can all realistically pitch for the team in 2016. I'm not advocating trading all of that depth away, because they need it, but the team also needs some minor league bats and they could find some this way. 

 

5. Sign Neftali Feliz and Tommy Hunter

 

Both guys will be undervalued this offseason and could be signed on cheap 1 year deals. The Angels need some more power arms to mix in with the strike throwers with average stuff of the current pen(Smith, Street, Ramos, Alvarez, Salas).

 

 

I don't think this team is screwed by any means. With the 2nd Wild Card spot being here, the Angels should realistically contend again next season, especially if they can make a few moves. Signing a guy like Heyward really bloats the 2016 payroll but once the Weaver/Wilson/Hamilton deals are up, the payroll looks a lot more reasonable. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is the offseason where he will have to decide if he goes all in on Trout's prime years or he doesn't.

 

 

i think this is a huge, huge factor in deciding where they go in the next few years.

 

it would be heartbreaking not to win a WS while having the best player in the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This team is about as hard to watch as any team I can remember since becoming an Angel fan.

 

the mid-70s halos were a big stinky pile of poo. then, like now, we had ryan and tanana (vs. trout and richards) so there was reason to keep tuning in. we also had dick enberg, who made everything better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great article. In regards to this offseason, this would be my preference:

1. Sign Jason Heyward

Even if the Angels are interested in retooling a bit, Heyward is young and smack in the middle of his prime. A Calhoun-Trout-Heyward outfield gives the Angels a legitimate outfield for the next 4+years. If the Angels can spend a lot on old, aging players, then they sure as hell can spend the money on a 5+ WAR player who is young and fixes a huge hole in LF(or RF).

2. Re-Sign Chris Iannetta

No, he hasn't been good this year but Iannetta has a track record of getting on base and he's even improved his pitch framing drastically this year. This down season kills his free agent market so a 1 year flier on him would be fine. You can't go into next season hoping a Perez/Bandy platoon will get it done.

3. Sign Asdrubal Cabrera

Cabrera is quietly having a solid 2+ WAR season and makes a lot of sense as a 2 year option who can play 2B/SS/3B. Baldoquin was supposed to be the quick riser to take over at 2B in 2016 but that's out of the question now. Cabrera gives you league average offense and decent defense and probably gets overlooked due to Kendrick & Zobrist being FA this offseason.

4. Trade 2 of Nate Smith, Nick Tropeano and Hector Santiago for bats

The team has a wealth of starting pitching who can contribute in 2016. Richards, Heaney, Santiago, Skaggs, Shoemaker, Weaver, Wilson, Tropeano, Newcomb, Ellis and Smith can all realistically pitch for the team in 2016. I'm not advocating trading all of that depth away, because they need it, but the team also needs some minor league bats and they could find some this way.

5. Sign Neftali Feliz and Tommy Hunter

Both guys will be undervalued this offseason and could be signed on cheap 1 year deals. The Angels need some more power arms to mix in with the strike throwers with average stuff of the current pen(Smith, Street, Ramos, Alvarez, Salas).

I don't think this team is screwed by any means. With the 2nd Wild Card spot being here, the Angels should realistically contend again next season, especially if they can make a few moves. Signing a guy like Heyward really bloats the 2016 payroll but once the Weaver/Wilson/Hamilton deals are up, the payroll looks a lot more reasonable.

I kind of like all of this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i keep seeing trout wasting his prime here??   if he got a few hits in the playoffs last year when they counted its a different story.   some of this is on him too and albert and the millions in contracts that could not get it done vs kc.     they need to spend money next year that is for sure...if they don't,  the writing my be on the wall for seasons to come.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...