Meanwhile Yoenis Céspedes

[arch stanton]

Not what you mentioned in the OP.

[Second Base]

Is this the decision they came to as a staff?  How was the meeting?  Did they have doughnuts or muffins?   BTW, they brought him up and let the veteran go because Mike Scioscia hates young guys and never plays them.

That last part is actually true between the months of February and July. Once the GMJ's, Abreus, Wells, Ibanez and Joyces of the world continue sucking at the ASB, then he'll replace them with the Morales', Trumbos, Bourjos', Crons and whoever else of the world.

I wish he had a quicker trigger finger on the vets.

[Inside Pitch]

That last part is actually true between the months of February and July. Once the GMJ's, Abreus, Wells, Ibanez and Joyces of the world continue sucking at the ASB, then he'll replace them with the Morales', Trumbos, Bourjos', Crons and whoever else of the world.

I wish he had a quicker trigger finger on the vets.

 

It's true if people ignore reality.     Who exactly did GMJ keep out of the lineup or in AAA?   Willits?

 

Abreu and Wells similarly had no effect on anyone -- Trout was sent to AAA after coming down with that virus, Abreu was released April 27th, Trout made his 2012 debut April 28th.  

 

Ibanez started 42 of the 71 games the Angels played before his release last June -- Cron BTW had started 27 of the 36 games played between his call up (May 3rd) and Ibanez's release.  

 

What veteran kept Kendrys out of the lineup?  Kendrys actually led all Angels 1B in starts as a 23 year old with 57, unfortunately he didn't hit very well and lost playing time to those cagey veterans, Casey Kotchman, and Howie Kendrick...   Kendrys actually got more at bats and playing time as a 23 year old than Ibanez did last year.

 

Trumbo?  September call up in 2010 after his first season in AAA and was the starter the next season.  

 

Bourjos?  Promoted to the Angels as a 23 year old with less than a full season of AAA under his belt -- Mike Scioscia then moved Torii Hunter to RF to make room for him.    Injuries did more to keep PB out of the lineup than anyone or anything else.

 

Going further back.....

 

Bengie Molina -- handed C duties despite veteran catchers on hand - Molina BTW had been released by Bavasi and company only to be brought back into the fold by Stoneman.   John Lackey, replaced Scott Schoeneweiss in the rotation during a pennant race.  Scott Shields, Donkey, and Krod -- all inserted into the pen.  Jordan Walden installed as the closer in April.  Orlando Cabrera traded to make room for Aybar.  Adam Kennedy who had been installed as the starter at 2B as a rookie, ultimately replaced by Kendrick another young player.  David Eckstein handed SS position despite never having played SS, over veteran Benji Gil.

 

Basically of all the examples you put forth, the only one that really has teeth to it is maybe Joyce....   Poor Alfredo Marte...

 

There are a lot of valid complaints about MS and while I agree he can give a veteran too long a rope.... the he hates young players one is overblown.

Edited August 23, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Stradling]

It's true if people ignore reality. Who exactly did GMJ keep out of the lineup or in AAA? Willits?

Abreu and Wells similarly had no effect on anyone -- Trout was sent to AAA after coming down with that virus, Abreu was released April 27th, Trout made his 2012 debut April 28th.

Ibanez started 42 of the 71 games the Angels played before his release last June -- Cron BTW had started 27 of the 36 games played between his call up (May 3rd) and Ibanez's release.

What veteran kept Kendrys out of the lineup? Kendrys actually led all Angels 1B in starts as a 23 year old with 57, unfortunately he didn't hit very well and lost playing time to those cagey veterans, Casey Kotchman, and Howie Kendrick... Kendrys actually got more at bats and playing time as a 23 year old than Ibanez did last year.

Trumbo? September call up in 2010 after his first season in AAA and was the starter the next season.

Bourjos? Promoted to the Angels as a 23 year old with less than a full season of AAA under his belt -- Mike Scioscia then moved Torii Hunter to RF to make room for him. Injuries did more to keep PB out of the lineup than anyone or anything else.

Going further back.....

Bengie Molina -- handed C duties despite veteran catchers on hand - Molina BTW had been released by Bavasi and company only to be brought back into the fold by Stoneman. John Lackey, replaced Scott Schoeneweiss in the rotation during a pennant race. Scott Shields, Donkey, and Krod -- all inserted into the pen. Jordan Walden installed as the closer in April. Orlando Cabrera traded to make room for Aybar. Adam Kennedy who had been installed as the starter at 2B as a rookie, ultimately replaced by Kendrick another young player. David Eckstein handed SS position despite never having played SS, over veteran Benji Gil.

Basically of all the examples you put forth, the only one that really has teeth to it is maybe Joyce.... Poor Alfredo Marte...

There are a lot of valid complaints about MS and while I agree he can give a veteran too long a rope.... the he hates young players one is overblown.

This is great, won't stop people from complaining about Scioscia and his "love for veterans" nonsense, but I love it. This should be exhibit A in all Scioscia hates rookies posts.

[m0nkey]

Damn

[Stradling]

Hey IP the only valid argument against will be Jered vs Jeff.

[Second Base]

It's true if people ignore reality.     Who exactly did GMJ keep out of the lineup or in AAA?   Willits?

 

Abreu and Wells similarly had no effect on anyone -- Trout was sent to AAA after coming down with that virus, Abreu was released April 27th, Trout made his 2012 debut April 28th.  

 

Ibanez started 42 of the 71 games the Angels played before his release last June -- Cron BTW had started 27 of the 36 games played between his call up (May 3rd) and Ibanez's release.  

 

What veteran kept Kendrys out of the lineup?  Kendrys actually led all Angels 1B in starts as a 23 year old with 57, unfortunately he didn't hit very well and lost playing time to those cagey veterans, Casey Kotchman, and Howie Kendrick...   Kendrys actually got more at bats and playing time as a 23 year old than Ibanez did last year.

 

Trumbo?  September call up in 2010 after his first season in AAA and was the starter the next season.  

 

Bourjos?  Promoted to the Angels as a 23 year old with less than a full season of AAA under his belt -- Mike Scioscia then moved Torii Hunter to RF to make room for him.    Injuries did more to keep PB out of the lineup than anyone or anything else.

 

Going further back.....

 

Bengie Molina -- handed C duties despite veteran catchers on hand - Molina BTW had been released by Bavasi and company only to be brought back into the fold by Stoneman.   John Lackey, replaced Scott Schoeneweiss in the rotation during a pennant race.  Scott Shields, Donkey, and Krod -- all inserted into the pen.  Jordan Walden installed as the closer in April.  Orlando Cabrera traded to make room for Aybar.  Adam Kennedy who had been installed as the starter at 2B as a rookie, ultimately replaced by Kendrick another young player.  David Eckstein handed SS position despite never having played SS, over veteran Benji Gil.

 

Basically of all the examples you put forth, the only one that really has teeth to it is maybe Joyce....   Poor Alfredo Marte...

 

There are a lot of valid complaints about MS and while I agree he can give a veteran too long a rope.... the he hates young players one is overblown.

GMJ played RF over Morales down the stretch and in the 2008 playoffs for the Angels. He even had a critical error or misjudged a routine fly ball that resulted in runs.

Scioscia stuck with Rivera for a couple months too long while Bourjos was tearing it up in AAA. This would prove to be Rivera's final season with the Angels, as he was let go once Hunter moved to the corner OF to make room for Bourjos.

Trout definitely had a virus, but his beginning the season in a AAA had a lot more to do with the team wanting to see what they had in Wells and Abreu first. If Trout was really that sick, he probably wouldn't have been playing in AAA. He was only promoted after it became embarrassingly clear that Abreu was done and AAA was no match for Trout.

So the end result is, yes, Scioscia definitely shows greater trust for veterans, to a fault. This. Doesn't mean he hates rookies, it simply means that a vet with an eroding skill set will typically be given a shot before going with an unproven rookie. When it works, as it did with Abreu when he first signed, it makes Scioscia look like a genius. When it doesn't, it ,ales him look like an idiotic relic of the past.

[Guest]

GMJ played RF over Morales down the stretch and in the 2008 playoffs for the Angels. He even had a critical error or misjudged a routine fly ball that resulted in runs.

Scioscia stuck with Rivera for a couple months too long while Bourjos was tearing it up in AAA. This would prove to be Rivera's final season with the Angels, as he was let go once Hunter moved to the corner OF to make room for Bourjos.

Trout definitely had a virus, but his beginning the season in a AAA had a lot more to do with the team wanting to see what they had in Wells and Abreu first. If Trout was really that sick, he probably wouldn't have been playing in AAA. He was only promoted after it became embarrassingly clear that Abreu was done and AAA was no match for Trout.

So the end result is, yes, Scioscia definitely shows greater trust for veterans, to a fault. This. Doesn't mean he hates rookies, it simply means that a vet with an eroding skill set will typically be given a shot before going with an unproven rookie. When it works, as it did with Abreu when he first signed, it makes Scioscia look like a genius. When it doesn't, it ,ales him look like an idiotic relic of the past.

 

The long leash for struggling veterans was well regarded and highly effective 15 years ago. The game has changed since then however and Scioscia has not been able to adapt effectively. 2010-present has made this painfully clear. 

[seenoevil]

He should of had been an Angel, it would had gave us that shot in the arm we needed for this offense. now we are dependent on ****ing scrubs

[ten ocho recon scout]

Hey IP the only valid argument against will be Jered vs Jeff.

they should have had their own reebok campaign like those two brothers in the 92 olympics

[ScottT]

I wasn't too high on Cespedes before this season started.  Thought he was highly overrated, but this year he's been excellent.  He's a perfect fit for next season. They may end up overpaying him, but that is the nature of free agency.  The Angels have to get involved in free agency this year.   

 

Would've been nice to get him at the trade deadline, too, but there's an extra cost, and it's such a short time frame.  Who knew he'd have one of his best months ever this month.

[Inside Pitch]

GMJ played RF over Morales down the stretch and in the 2008 playoffs for the Angels. He even had a critical error or misjudged a routine fly ball that resulted in runs.

Scioscia stuck with Rivera for a couple months too long while Bourjos was tearing it up in AAA. This would prove to be Rivera's final season with the Angels, as he was let go once Hunter moved to the corner OF to make room for Bourjos.

Trout definitely had a virus, but his beginning the season in a AAA had a lot more to do with the team wanting to see what they had in Wells and Abreu first. If Trout was really that sick, he probably wouldn't have been playing in AAA. He was only promoted after it became embarrassingly clear that Abreu was done and AAA was no match for Trout.

So the end result is, yes, Scioscia definitely shows greater trust for veterans, to a fault. This. Doesn't mean he hates rookies, it simply means that a vet with an eroding skill set will typically be given a shot before going with an unproven rookie. When it works, as it did with Abreu when he first signed, it makes Scioscia look like a genius. When it doesn't, it ,ales him look like an idiotic relic of the past.

 

Jesus ...  you're trying soooo hard to support an agenda that has no merit.  

 

I got news for you -- GMJ was nothing more than a defensive replacement/4th OFer in 2008.   He had already been displaced in CF by Torii Hunter and the Angels still had a guy named Vlad in RF..  Remember him?   The LFer in 08 was Garret Anderson.   But hey, if you think Kendrys was a better defender in RF after all of 7 games there in AAA then, I guess I don't know what to say.   No doubt you managed to watch all 7 of those AAA games and he proved himself to be quite the defensive OFer.    Personally, I think calling a guy up to use him as a back up out of his normal position is idiocy.

 

Rivera...  More revisionist history.   Rivera posted a .741 OPS the second half of 2010, his .812 OPS in September was his best month....  Stuck with him too long indeed.   Again, your entire argument is laid to waste by reality..   Bourjos didn't languish in AAA, he was called up -- after all of 414 at bats at the level.   Once recalled he didn't the pine... the Angels had Hunter (a veteran), move from CF to RF and Rivera and Abreu (both veterans) split time in LF...  He's a classic example of a young player who didn't suffer at the hands of veterans, despite the fact he was hovering around the Mendoza line.

 

So the real "end result" is that the narrative falls short of the reality -- again...  Not that it should stop you from repeating it -- I mean, we got a guy that can't go 5 minutes without talking about how Dipoto was fired.

 

 

The long leash for struggling veterans was well regarded and highly effective 15 years ago. The game has changed since then however and Scioscia has not been able to adapt effectively. 2010-present has made this painfully clear. 

 

2010 to present is when the Angels pipeline of position player talent ran dry....  Bourjos, Trumbo, Trout, were the last vestiges of the previous regime's position player prospects...   How much of his sticking with guys had to do with a lack of options .vs a reluctance to actually play younger players?

 

There are a lot of legit criticisms of MS..  the young player thing has always been overstated.   

Edited August 23, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[ScottT]

Calhoun

 

There doesn't seem to be much on the way when it comes to position players, though.  

[tennischmp]

I got news for you -- GMJ was nothing more than a defensive replacement/4th OFer in 2008. 

Oh really? http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?id=281001103

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/gamelog/_/id/4080/year/2008/gary-matthews-jr

Edited August 24, 2015 by tennischmp

[Troll Daddy]

C.J. Wilson has had a FIP over 4 in three of the last four years. He'll be 35 years old next season, coming off a major season ending elbow surgery, is making 20 million dollars and has trade protection against 8 teams.

I don't find it startling that he has negative trade value, I find it surprising that you legitimately believe C.J. Wilson has so much value that he could bring in return multiple prospects worth having, or a major league ready player worth playing everyday.

What planet are you living on?[/quote

]

They're removing bone spurs ... let's not get all dramatic. FYI 35 years old isn't as old as you believe it to be. He was 8-8 this season with a ERA under 4.00. He will comeback next season stronger and in better condition. He's a veteran who know how to pitch. Easily a 3-4 in anyone's rotation.

A trade can be made ... will the Angels have to eat salary YES. He has plenty of trade value if the Angels go that direction.

[JoJo26]

Not what you mentioned in the OP.