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So why keep Green at all?


hen3ry

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So, there are four ways Green could have (and probably should have) been used tonight

 

1)  Starting in left.  Joyce is so awful that I'd settle for literally anyone on the roster playing for him (even Featherweight)

2)  After Freese got hurt.  You had three options at that point to play third:

* Featherweight

* Green

* Use Pujols there, bring in Cron at first.

 

The last option is a literal last resort, I mention it only because it brings up the spectre of putting a guy somewhere he really shouldn't be and getting hurt.  You don't want to risk injury there.  Now, if we're talking 14th inning, no one left on the bench except a backup catcher who can manage first in a pinch, then yeah, you gotta do it.  But not when there's better choices.

 

Ok, so Featherston or Green.  Featherston did far more than you can realistically expect from him - he actually got on base, and almost hit a sac fly.  That's like Trout hitting 5 homers.  But why put him in a position where he'd have to potentially hit in a high leverage position like that in the first place?  

 

If it was Aybar or Johnny G who got hurt, then yeah, you want your best defender up the middle.  At third, you just need someone who won't make a Trumbo of himself out there.  We'll come back to the at bat in the 7th later.

 

3) When Robertson got hurt.

 

I get it, Trout is the best defensive option.  He's also the DH today because he was nursing an injury.  Why risk it here?  It worked out, but it was an unnecessary risk.  For three innings, I'm willing to risk one error in center.

 

Yeah, it'd be a tough call whether to put Joyce, Green or Calhoun in center.  I'd go with Calhoun personally, just because he's the best outfielder of the bunch, and slot Green in right.  That gives you two advantages - reduces the injury risk to Trout on his partial "off" day, and it leaves you the flexibility of when you use Cron - you're not forced to use him to pinch hit for the pitcher, you could now consider using him in another high leverage position...

 

 

4)  Featherston's at bat in the 7th.

 

Ok, we put Featherston at 3rd, and we put Trout in CF despite the injury risk.  Now we got Aybar being given the free pass to load the bases in the 7th, because Featherston's up after him.   Why wouldn't you take the opportunity there to break the game wide open?  Use Cron to hit, - you've got Green available to play third later on (and if the inning goes long, you can use Green as your PH for the pitcher's spot).   Absolute worst case scenario, Cron hits into the a double play just like Featherston did, and you've got Green at third, and end up using Perez to hit in the 8th.  Any other outcome, however, and you can use Perez defensively, pulling the double-switch with Iannetta's spot (which was up after Featherston), ensuring no pitcher hits.  That was the highest leverage position in the game to use your best bench hitter (Cron) - instead we blew him with 2 out in the 8th.

 

Yeah, you can't use Cron to hit in the 7th if there's no defensive option to take over at third, and yeah, Pujols is not going to be that option - but last I checked, Green can play third adequately.

 

 

 

If the Angels aren't going to use Green, then why keep him on the roster?  It's not like it is with Featherweight - Green stays with the franchise in Utah.  Leave him in SLC until you can trade him for something if you're never going to put him out there.  I'm not saying Green is the savior of the franchise - we won tonight despite the poor player management - I'm just saying it's bad enough we're playing this season with a 24 man roster.  Why play part of it with a 23 man roster?

 

 

 

 

 

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I'm not even saying give him regular playing time.  He's a utility IF/OF.  Fine.  Thats his role, and they won't even let him do that.  If they have that little faith in his ability, send him back to Utah where he can at least potentially build trade bait value.

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So, there are four ways Green could have (and probably should have) been used tonight

1) Starting in left. Joyce is so awful that I'd settle for literally anyone on the roster playing for him (even Featherweight)

2) After Freese got hurt. You had three options at that point to play third:

* Featherweight

* Green

* Use Pujols there, bring in Cron at first.

The last option is a literal last resort, I mention it only because it brings up the spectre of putting a guy somewhere he really shouldn't be and getting hurt. You don't want to risk injury there. Now, if we're talking 14th inning, no one left on the bench except a backup catcher who can manage first in a pinch, then yeah, you gotta do it. But not when there's better choices.

Ok, so Featherston or Green. Featherston did far more than you can realistically expect from him - he actually got on base, and almost hit a sac fly. That's like Trout hitting 5 homers. But why put him in a position where he'd have to potentially hit in a high leverage position like that in the first place?

If it was Aybar or Johnny G who got hurt, then yeah, you want your best defender up the middle. At third, you just need someone who won't make a Trumbo of himself out there. We'll come back to the at bat in the 7th later.

3) When Robertson got hurt.

I get it, Trout is the best defensive option. He's also the DH today because he was nursing an injury. Why risk it here? It worked out, but it was an unnecessary risk. For three innings, I'm willing to risk one error in center.

Yeah, it'd be a tough call whether to put Joyce, Green or Calhoun in center. I'd go with Calhoun personally, just because he's the best outfielder of the bunch, and slot Green in right. That gives you two advantages - reduces the injury risk to Trout on his partial "off" day, and it leaves you the flexibility of when you use Cron - you're not forced to use him to pinch hit for the pitcher, you could now consider using him in another high leverage position...

4) Featherston's at bat in the 7th.

Ok, we put Featherston at 3rd, and we put Trout in CF despite the injury risk. Now we got Aybar being given the free pass to load the bases in the 7th, because Featherston's up after him. Why wouldn't you take the opportunity there to break the game wide open? Use Cron to hit, - you've got Green available to play third later on (and if the inning goes long, you can use Green as your PH for the pitcher's spot). Absolute worst case scenario, Cron hits into the a double play just like Featherston did, and you've got Green at third, and end up using Perez to hit in the 8th. Any other outcome, however, and you can use Perez defensively, pulling the double-switch with Iannetta's spot (which was up after Featherston), ensuring no pitcher hits. That was the highest leverage position in the game to use your best bench hitter (Cron) - instead we blew him with 2 out in the 8th.

Yeah, you can't use Cron to hit in the 7th if there's no defensive option to take over at third, and yeah, Pujols is not going to be that option - but last I checked, Green can play third adequately.

If the Angels aren't going to use Green, then why keep him on the roster? It's not like it is with Featherweight - Green stays with the franchise in Utah. Leave him in SLC until you can trade him for something if you're never going to put him out there. I'm not saying Green is the savior of the franchise - we won tonight despite the poor player management - I'm just saying it's bad enough we're playing this season with a 24 man roster. Why play part of it with a 23 man roster?

Jerry, you walked away after Arte gave you a second chance. It's over Jerry. It's over.

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I'm not even saying give him regular playing time.  He's a utility IF/OF.  Fine.  Thats his role, and they won't even let him do that.  If they have that little faith in his ability, send him back to Utah where he can at least potentially build trade bait value.

 

Problem with being a UT IF/OF is that playing defense is a requirement.   Green would need a defensive replacement eveyrhwere but in LF and even there, the jury is out.

 

 

The last time Green got anything close to regular playing time with us, he had a .720 OPS (in the second half of 2013). So frustrating seeing guys like Featherston, Joyce and co getting playing time ahead of him.

 

 

It's hard to get playing time when in your most recent stint in AAA getting everyday playing time you put up a .741 OPS in the PCL despite playing your home games in SLC.

 

I have no idea why people keep acting like Grant Green has been completely screwed, the guy is just not that good.   Alfredo Marte, Ryan Jackson, Roger Kieschnick, and Charles Cutler have all outhit him, and all have better gloves.

Edited by Inside Pitch
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In general, should Green get playing time over some of these yahoos like Joyce?  Of course.  

 

Last night though, we were ahead when Frees was hurt so Scioscia went with the better defense at third with Featherston and we were well ahead when Trout need to be put back in and lose the DH spot so he went with the best possible defense.  That is my thinking anyway.   

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When Cron came back they decided to get him regular at bats to see if he would get going. Don't know why they can't do that for Green in left field and 2nd base and DH.

 

Cron actually went down to AAA and hit, Green put up an OPS below the league average.  They are too different animals.  Also, wouldn't playing Green at DH take away at bats from Cron?  It's not like his .652 OPS in AAA against RHPs makes him a good platoon partner for Cron.

 

When it's all said and done, the biggest issue with Grant Green is his struggles defensively but he should at least get a shot in LF...

Edited by Inside Pitch
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Grant Green is a perfect example of how to mismanage a prospect. What the Angels are doing with him is absolutely idiotic. He needs to be starting full time whether its here or SLC. Continuing to rot him on the bench isn't going to do anyone good. Its incredibly frustrating that he doesn't get a chance yet ****ing Gio and Joyce and even Cron before he got "hot" had/have all these chances.

Edited by Cory
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Grant Green is a perfect example of how to mismanage a prospect. What the Angels are doing with him is absolutely idiotic. He needs to be starting full time whether its here or SLC. Continuing to rot him on the bench isn't going to do anyone good. Its incredibly frustrating that he doesn't get a chance yet ****ing Gio and Joyce and even Cron before he got "hot" had/have all these chances.

 

He's not a prospect anymore.  He's almost 28.  He now has the equivalent of half a season of plate appearances in the majors, and he's hit .258/.291/.338.  Sure, you can say, "Well, he just needs to play regularly!"--but the fact is, he just hasn't done that well at the Major League level when he has played.  I used to be optimistic about his chances, but now I'm not. 

 

At the same time, though, I don't really get why the Angels keep him around if they're NOT going to play him.  If they're not convinced that he's good, let him go.

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Grant Green is a perfect example of how to mismanage a prospect. What the Angels are doing with him is absolutely idiotic. He needs to be starting full time whether its here or SLC. Continuing to rot him on the bench isn't going to do anyone good. Its incredibly frustrating that he doesn't get a chance yet ****ing Gio and Joyce and even Cron before he got "hot" had/have all these chances.

 

You would on point if he was a prospect from the Angels organization but in fact he was really the product of the A's farm system that never could tap his potential and shuffled him around from position to position, never giving him any substantial playing time at any one position. By the time the Angels picked him up for Callaspo he was no longer a prospect, he was a reclamation project.

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Grant Green is a perfect example of how to mismanage a prospect. What the Angels are doing with him is absolutely idiotic. He needs to be starting full time whether its here or SLC. Continuing to rot him on the bench isn't going to do anyone good. Its incredibly frustrating that he doesn't get a chance yet ****ing Gio and Joyce and even Cron before he got "hot" had/have all these chances.

 

Grant Green is a perfect example of what happens to you when you don't hit enough to be considered DH material and don't have any semblance of a glove.   He's not been mismanaged by the Angels, he simply failed to deliver on the his promise years ago.   As Notti stated above, by the time the Angels got him he was a reclamation project.

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