Some crazy Troutporn

[tdawg87]

The 12 at bats was a joke to needle AJ and his Trout porn updates. But the rest is serious, Trout is not stacking up to the greats when it comes to making best use of his at bats. Everyone wants to talk stats then turn a blind eye to strikeout totals as if they don't factor, especially when they are directly related to letting the pitched take the advantage every at bat.

 

This would be relevant if Trout weren't hitting .300+ and being 2nd in the league in OPS+. People "turn a blind eye" because they haven't caused Trout's numbers to go down. His average has gone down sure, but his wRC+ and wOBA, as well as his adjusted OPS are at career high levels. Not to mention his homeruns and ISO.

The point is, strikeouts have not deterred Trout from being on the amazing pace he is currently on.

[Angelsjunky]

Trout has had one hit in his last 12 at bats. He is on track for another 170 strikeout season. I'd like a list of all the hall of famers that averaged 170 strike outs per season. Not sure where you are going to find those guys. It wan'ts Aaron, Mays, Mantle or DiMaggio.

 

It is a good question. Some quick research:

Right now Trout is 7th all-time in wRC+ at 168. If you're unfamiliar with this stat, it is basically a more sophisticated version of OPS+ and is a purely offensive statistic. 100 is average. 150 is an MVP candidate, 200 is Babe Ruth or Bryce Harper this year.

 

Trout's SO% is 22.4%. The only other players in the top 30 of wRC+ with a SO% over 20% are Mark McGwire (13th, 157 wRC+, 20.8%), Dick Allen (18th, 155, 21.3%), and Paul Goldschmidt (30th, 149, 21.9%). And yes, Trout strikes out more than Mark McGwire did.

 

To find someone that strikes out more than Trout, you have to go to #43, Giancarlo Stanton (145, 28.3%) and then #44 Jim Thome (145, 24.7%), then all the way down to #83 Reggie Jackson (139, 22.7%).

 

So yeah, Trout strikes out more than any inner circle Hall of Famer, and substantially so. But here's the thing: we have to take into account era. People are striking out a lot more now. The AL average of strikeouts per game this year is 7.43 (per team), down a hair from 7.51 last year and 7.54 in 2013. 2013 was the highest in AL history, with 2015 the third highest. Actually, 2013-2015 are the only three seasons in AL history with higher than 7Ks/game per team, and the rate has historically gone up.

 

Anyhow, Trout would have struck out a lot in any era, but my guess is that his career average of 160 per year would have been more like 120 per year in the 1950s - 80s, and more like 140 in the 1990s.

 

43 AJ.

 

Only a couple years older than me. I remember Grich too, but I thought you remembered Fregosi who stopped being an Angel before either of us were born.

[mulwin444]

Don't bad mouth an Angel Eric, you will be labeled "dumb" and worse.

No, the person is not dumb, just the comment...

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

It is a good question. Some quick research:

Right now Trout is 7th all-time in wRC+ at 168. If you're unfamiliar with this stat, it is basically a more sophisticated version of OPS+ and is a purely offensive statistic. 100 is average. 150 is an MVP candidate, 200 is Babe Ruth or Bryce Harper this year.

Trout's SO% is 22.4%. The only other players in the top 30 of wRC+ with a SO% over 20% are Mark McGwire (13th, 157 wRC+, 20.8%), Dick Allen (18th, 155, 21.3%), and Paul Goldschmidt (30th, 149, 21.9%). And yes, Trout strikes out more than Mark McGwire did.

To find someone that strikes out more than Trout, you have to go to #43, Giancarlo Stanton (145, 28.3%) and then #44 Jim Thome (145, 24.7%), then all the way down to #83 Reggie Jackson (139, 22.7%).

So yeah, Trout strikes out more than any inner circle Hall of Famer, and substantially so. But here's the thing: we have to take into account era. People are striking out a lot more now. The AL average of strikeouts per game this year is 7.43 (per team), down a hair from 7.51 last year and 7.54 in 2013. 2013 was the highest in AL history, with 2015 the third highest. Actually, 2013-2015 are the only three seasons in AL history with higher than 7Ks/game per team, and the rate has historically gone up.

Anyhow, Trout would have struck out a lot in any era, but my guess is that his career average of 160 per year would have been more like 120 per year in the 1950s - 80s, and more like 140 in the 1990s.

Only a couple years older than me. I remember Grich too, but I thought you remembered Fregosi who stopped being an Angel before either of us were born.

Fregosi was our man in charge in 79, so I was born into the "he's our guy mentality". I was big into the Angels heroes. So his homecoming to manage was a big deal.

[Angelsjunky]

That was just before my time, SOTO. I became a fan in 1980 or 81, can't exactly remember. I do remember being disappointed when the Brewers beat them in the playoffs in 1982. But I didn't become diehard until 1987, the beginning of the Dark Ages.

[Count Orlok]

Trout has had one hit in his last 12 at bats. He is on track for another 170 strikeout season. I'd like a list of all the hall of famers that averaged 170 strike outs per season. Not sure where you are going to find those guys. It wan'ts Aaron, Mays, Mantle or DiMaggio.

 

It's not really a fair comparison since everybody strikes out a ton these days. K/9 is 50% higher today than it was in the 60's and 2x what it was in the 40's and earlier. Mickey Mantle averaged 115 K/162 games in his career which is right in line with Trout compared to league averages.

[mulwin444]

HR!...spoiled by the strike out

[Dick B Back]

Ok, I'm really old cause I remember Fregosi.

That being said, while I have been an Angels fan since the age of 7, my dad was a Giants fan so I've seen Mays. I've seen Mays a lot. He is the best all around player I have ever seen.

So to answer the question on how Trout stacks up to the greats in GIDP we'll measure Trout's crrent age 23 season against Mays'. Willie grounded into 12 that year (1954). So far Trout has only grounded into 5 so looks like Mike wins that one.

But, let's put this in the appropriate context. This was Mays' first year after returning from the army after being drafted during the Korean War. He missed most of 52 and all of 53.

So, although he hit into those 12 double plays, he let the league in hitting at .345, triples with 13, SLG .667, and OPS of 1.078. Hit 41 HRs and a .411 OBP.

In the WS, made The Catch helping the Giants win so he has a ring.

Not bad for a guy who had been out of baseball for almost 2 years.

I love Trout by the way, but he's got a ways to go.

[Lhalo]

Ok, I'm really old cause I remember Fregosi.

That being said, while I have been an Angels fan since the age of 7, my dad was a Giants fan so I've seen Mays. I've seen Mays a lot. He is the best all around player I have ever seen.

So to answer the question on how Trout stacks up to the greats in GIDP we'll measure Trout's crrent age 23 season against Mays'. Willie grounded into 12 that year (1954). So far Trout has only grounded into 5 so looks like Mike wins that one.

But, let's put this in the appropriate context. This was Mays' first year after returning from the army after being drafted during the Korean War. He missed most of 52 and all of 53.

So, although he hit into those 12 double plays, he let the league in hitting at .345, triples with 13, SLG .667, and OPS of 1.078. Hit 41 HRs and a .411 OBP.

In the WS, made The Catch helping the Giants win so he has a ring.

Not bad for a guy who had been out of baseball for almost 2 years.

I love Trout by the way, but he's got a ways to go.

That's pretty amazing.

If Mays wasn't such a dick I might actually like him.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/06/willie-mays-was-a-total-jerk-to-hank-aaron/comment-page-2/

[Lhalo]

No offense Dick B Back.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

That was just before my time, SOTO. I became a fan in 1980 or 81, can't exactly remember. I do remember being disappointed when the Brewers beat them in the playoffs in 1982. But I didn't become diehard until 1987, the beginning of the Dark Ages.

I went to games really young. Ryan threw me a ball during one of his starts in 78. I had angels crap all over my walls and was a big "yes we can" kid in 79. Listened to Angels baseball on the KMPC religiously and was score keeping games by 1981. I was 9.

Edited July 21, 2015 by SOTO

[Dick B Back]

That's pretty amazing.

If Mays wasn't such a dick I might actually like him.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/06/willie-mays-was-a-total-jerk-to-hank-aaron/comment-page-2/

I just saw them together on the greatest living 4 on MLB network laughing it up and telling stories so thats an interesting story.

I will say that if Mays played all his home games in Milwaukee and Atlanta instead of the Polo Grounds and Candlestick, he would probably hit a few more homers, quite a few.

Koufax was laughing saying he even hit a homer in Milwaukee. They said anyone could hit a homer there.

[Dick B Back]

No offense Dick B Back.

No offense taken. Its not like I'm his PR guy.

[Pujols4MVP]

I'd rather see a Strikeout than a GIDP or a forceout at Home cause of a weakly hit grounder.

[ScottT]

Mays struck out over 100 times one year. That same year he led the NL in walks and OBP with a .907 OPS.

Oh yeah, one more thing, he was 40.

 

In 1971, Mao Zedong invited the US ping pong team to visit Beijing.

[Pujols4MVP]

Anyhow, Trout would have struck out a lot in any era, but my guess is that his career average of 160 per year would have been more like 120 per year in the 1950s - 80s, and more like 140 in the 1990s.

 

 

Only a couple years older than me. I remember Grich too, but I thought you remembered Fregosi who stopped being an Angel before either of us were born.

 

I think in Ruth's era he would have averaged less than 100Ks with how inferior the level of competition was with MLB being white only & alot less population to fill the talent pool of players. Imagine Trout & Ruth on the same team.

Edited July 21, 2015 by MikeScioscia4MVP

[dream_weaver]

The 12 at bats was a joke to needle AJ and his Trout porn updates. But the rest is serious, Trout is not stacking up to the greats when it comes to making best use of his at bats. Everyone wants to talk stats then turn a blind eye to strikeout totals as if they don't factor, especially when they are directly related to letting the pitched take the advantage every at bat.

You are correct but extremely oblivious. The truth is that EVERYBODY is striking out more. The trend in baseball has been a huge increase in strikeouts because nowadays pitchers have, lets face it, better stuff for striking guys out. The Mets have 5 guys who throw in the upper 90's with great breaking balls (Matz, Harvey, Wheeler, Thor, deGrom). That is unprecedented. Read this article by Fangraphs published in 2013: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-continuing-rise-in-strikeout-rate/ .  Read this quote: "Over the last 30 years, the strikeout rate in MLB has gone from 14.0% to the 20.0% it stands at today. It took 24 years to move from 14% to 17%, but it’s only taken six years to move from 17% to 20%. Those six years correspond perfectly to the PITCHF/x era." Strikeout rate has risen since to an even higher 22% this season. My point is that comparing the strikeout rates of current players to past players must be done in context, which you are ignoring. Willie Mays would strike out WAY more in todays era of baseball. He would be great, but let's not pretend baseball hasn't changed. Of course guys in the '20's struck out less than current players. That is common sense. Trout's strikeouts are not worrisome because his rates are in line with everybody else in baseball. I'm not worried about his strikeout rate and neither should you. 

[dream_weaver]

You are correct but extremely oblivious. The truth is that EVERYBODY is striking out more. The trend in baseball has been a huge increase in strikeouts because nowadays pitchers have, lets face it, better stuff for striking guys out. The Mets have 5 guys who throw in the upper 90's with great breaking balls (Matz, Harvey, Wheeler, Thor, deGrom). That is unprecedented. Read this article by Fangraphs published in 2013: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-continuing-rise-in-strikeout-rate/ .  Read this quote: "Over the last 30 years, the strikeout rate in MLB has gone from 14.0% to the 20.0% it stands at today. It took 24 years to move from 14% to 17%, but it’s only taken six years to move from 17% to 20%. Those six years correspond perfectly to the PITCHF/x era." Strikeout rate has risen since to an even higher 22% this season. My point is that comparing the strikeout rates of current players to past players must be done in context, which you are ignoring. Willie Mays would strike out WAY more in todays era of baseball. He would be great, but let's not pretend baseball hasn't changed. Of course guys in the '20's struck out less than current players. That is common sense. Trout's strikeouts are not worrisome because his rates are in line with everybody else in baseball. I'm not worried about his strikeout rate and neither should you. 

I also want to point out that Trout is almost exactly league average in strikeout rate this year (he is at 22.8%). 

[Second Base]

The difference I think between Trout last year and this year is that last year, we saw considerable susceptibility to the high fastball. The league caught on and he struggled in the second half. This year, no such weakness is glaringly evident. I believe this year Trout will hit over .300 and approach 50 HR.

[Guest]

The difference I think between Trout last year and this year is that last year, we saw considerable susceptibility to the high fastball. The league caught on and he struggled in the second half. This year, no such weakness is glaringly evident. I believe this year Trout will hit over .300 and approach 50 HR.

As far as I've read, and seen myself, Trout is still vulnerable to the high inside fastball. Pitchers have just stopped throwing it for some reason.