Terry Smith defends his buddy Scioscia, but admits he could be fired

[Carlota Gonzalez]

If they were competent, they wouldn't be doing poorly. Hence, would be playing up to expectations, no?

The problem is the are typically compentent before they put on the Angels uniform, and after they take it off for another team. Thats a coaching issue.

[Jim]

He's got to stop swinging at that first pitch breaking ball and grounding into double plays to kill a rally.

 

Just stop it, Josh!!!

Oh I know. I especially love the fan type swings he puts on sliders leaving the plate area at break neck speeds.

[robblin17]

If they were competent, they wouldn't be doing poorly. Hence, would be playing up to expectations, no?

 

So you're expectation for this team was a 4-10 start with no signs of upside?

[robblin17]

The problem is the are typically compentent before they put on the Angels uniform, and after they take it off for another team. Thats a coaching issue.

This. 

[Carlota Gonzalez]

Ummm...I think we are saying the exact same thing, bud. Pujols has been fine, I am not arguing he has not been. Pujols looks like he will not be fine in years 6-10. That has to go into consideration when evaluating the player long term. I would hope he would not be having as many injury problems this early on in the contract too. That cannot be thrown under the rug. 

Whats the deal with the way you talk to people, BUD ? MY GOD, cant you just live in the present (which granted, sucks)? Its possible, not entirely likely, that he'll be AMAZING in 6 years. but that has nothing to do with right now. And thats what Im talking about. RIGHT NOW. He isnt the problem. IMO, coaching is. ANd the present is what this team needs to deal with, and they need to deal with it RIGHT NOW, this year.

[robblin17]

Whats the deal with the way you talk to people, BUD ? MY GOD, cant you just live in the present (which granted, sucks)? Its possible, not entirely likely, that he'll be AMAZING in 6 years. but that has nothing to do with right now. And thats what Im talking about. RIGHT NOW. He isnt the problem. IMO, coaching is. ANd the present is what this team needs to deal with, and they need to deal with it RIGHT NOW, this year.

 

We agree on the coaching part. Definitely needs a change.

 

When did I ever say Pujols was the problem? All I said was Pujols was an example of a reactionary buy by our franchise. I am sorry that I look at deals further than in terms of the RIGHT NOW. GMJ has one great year, Angels sign him for $50M. Scioscia hates Napoli and fans want a bat, we make an awful trade for Vernon Wells.

 

While Pujols is amazing, a 10 year contract is an extremely risky investment. That is ALL I am saying. Will Pujols be hitting in 6 years? I hope so, but early indicators just raise a red flag for me. Injuries seem to be getting worse and we are only in year 2. Is he great now? Of course, and I like him. He is one of the few bright spots, but that does not mean that you cannot look at this situation and analyze it further down the line. 

[Jim]

The problem is the are typically compentent before they put on the Angels uniform, and after they take it off for another team. Thats a coaching issue.

Granted, there could be some issues with the coaching staff. The possibility of poor scouting might be one, or the lack of respect towards the staff by the players, etc. etc. etc.

 

As a fan that is not privy to inside information, I can only call for Butcher's head because I think he sucks. I have no real knowledge of that whatsoever, but ****, I'm pissed my team is losing so much and I want him gone. So that by some twist of fate it pulls my teams head out of its collective ass, and they start winning. I'm with you 110% Carlota. 

[Jim]

So you're expectation for this team was a 4-10 start with no signs of upside?

Where did you see me say anything about my expectations?

[robblin17]

If they were competent, they wouldn't be doing poorly. Hence, would be playing up to expectations, no?

 

 

Where did you see me say anything about my expectations?

 

So you believed they were incompetent prior to the season since their record/play is poor? Like you said, if they were competent, they wouldn't be playing poorly and would therefore be playing up to expectations. 

[Carlota Gonzalez]

We agree on the coaching part. Definitely needs a change.

 

When did I ever say Pujols was the problem? All I said was Pujols was an example of a reactionary buy by our franchise. I am sorry that I look at deals further than in terms of the RIGHT NOW. GMJ has one great year, Angels sign him for $50M. Scioscia hates Napoli and fans want a bat, we make an awful trade for Vernon Wells.

 

While Pujols is amazing, a 10 year contract is an extremely risky investment. That is ALL I am saying. Will Pujols be hitting in 6 years? I hope so, but early indicators just raise a red flag for me. Injuries seem to be getting worse and we are only in year 2. Is he great now? Of course, and I like him. He is one of the few bright spots, but that does not mean that you cannot look at this situation and analyze it further down the line. 

Ok, cool. What you have pointed out, is what Im saying. We sign Good players, and they turn into dog poop. While some may have just been overratted, GMJ for example, look at some others. CJ, Vargas, Kazmir (although he may have been declining already), good before they got here, bad when here. Rodney, bad while here, CY young contender when he leaves? Thats a right now problem. Coaching needs to be addressed right now.

 

The fire is burning right now, and it needs to be put out. We can worry about better fire extinguishers after the fire is out.

[AZMike]

The problem is the are typically compentent before they put on the Angels uniform, and after they take it off for another team. Thats a coaching issue.

your post deserves a fist bump

[Jim]

That could say as much about our GM as the coaching staff.

 

 

How? The GM provides the players. It is up to the coaching staff to decided what to do with them. Scioscia has been provided more than competent players to work with.

 

 

If they were competent, they wouldn't be doing poorly. Hence, would be playing up to expectations, no?

 

 

So you're expectation for this team was a 4-10 start with no signs of upside?

 

 

Where did you see me say anything about my expectations?

 

 

So you believed they were incompetent prior to the season since their record/play is poor? Like you said, if they were competent, they wouldn't be playing poorly and would therefore be playing up to expectations. 

Again, where did I say anyone was incompetent? You are reading too much into the statements I have made. Here is the conversation, as I know it.

 

Jay suggested that the GM might play an equal part in all this blame.

Then you decided that all the players given to the coaching staff were competent at the time of their arrival.

I merely pointed out that if they were as competent as you suggest, they would have lived up to the expectations of the people who signed them.

At the time of their arrival, the only people with any expectations were the GM and his staff, the players in question, and the handful of people in the know.

I hope this clears up my part in the conversation for you.

[Inside Pitch]

Figures it would be the "new" guy to speak the truth and say this is unacceptable.

I like Langston. I hope he doesn't lose his job for telling the truth. Terry has been lying to save his for years.

 

 

So you agree with Langston?   Cause, he's pointing the finger at the player, not the usual target of scorn.

 

I wish Langston would be the everyday guy.  He's always been nails.

[Inside Pitch]

If you listen to fans long enough, we will not have a serviceable team, they would fire everybody.  Fans are reactionary, the organization can't afford to be reactionary - they need to be strategic, and take a longer term view.

 

 

If they listen to the fans again.  It will be Bill Bavasi part two.

[Jim]

If they listen to the fans again.  It will be Bill Bavasi part two.

Now there's a true disaster.

[Inside Pitch]

You are micro-analyzing a situation, no one gets fired for ***ing IBB Coco Crisp.  They get evaluated on a much larger scale than that, thank goodness.

 

 

Are we talking about the same Coco Crisp that was leading the AL in Offensive WAR?   Yep, it's stupid walking a really hot hitter.  

[Inside Pitch]

Sadly, GMJHGH was one of Stoneman's very few bad moves, along with never offering arbitration to pending FAs and thus losing the extra 1st round or sandwich pick.

 

 

Stoney seemed to struggle with CFers..   GMJ, the Dinosaur he signed before him was awful too.  Ironically, Reagins brightest moment was the Hunter signing, which most felt was also a massive overpay when it went down.

[avejoe1]

It is very disappointing to see the Angels seemingly make the same error over and over.  GMJ was the solution at $50 million but he had only one year to base his high batting average and slugging percentage on.  Matthews turned out to be a complete bust.  Vernon Wells had a disaster contract that all the other teams in baseball avoided and laughed at.  It didn't stop Mr. Moreno and Tony Reagins from trading away Napoli for Wells.  Angel fans got to see first hand what a disaster Wells was and how well Napoli played for Texas.  Instead of waiting anxiously to see how great this season will turn out, we get to see another agonizing disaster (which should have been predicted) on a rebuilt cheap pitching staff slowly unfold.

 

The inept decision making has not only been with the offseason moves but in the drafting, signing of  players and international matters.  The Angels drafted Buster Posey and Matt Harvey but chose to bicker over money and did not sign them.  Can you imagine how good this team would be with those two on it?  The Angels had multiple 1st round and 1st round supplemental draft picks in the past few years but the only decent pitcher drafted was Garret Richards.  Now when the team needs two or more good pitchers to bring up they are not there but the old Kevin Jepsens (big fast ball but fire starter control) are still on the roster.  The good international players over the past couple of years have gone to the A's and Rangers but the Angels wouldn't shell out the money (it was "invested" in Wells, etc.).  The Dominican minor team and the international staff are still trying to recover from the international director who was stealing from the Angels international players.

 

I find this whole mess disheartening.  The Angels are now tied with the Astros in the standings.  Can this get any worse?

[Inside Pitch]

  The Dominican minor team and the international staff are still trying to recover from the international director who was stealing from the Angels international players.

 

Well, technically they are still reeling from having completely neglected the international market after Clay Daniels was fired.

 

Again, this is an area where Stoneman was very active in and when MLB went to remove the Draft and Follow process the Angels loaded up on those guys..

Did you see them making ANY effort at all to sign guys before the money rules changed last year?  NOPE.

[Angels Never Die]

Blaming players is such a cop out.

[EDinTUSTIN]

Blaming players is such a cop out.

It is indeed! The players certainly share in the blame, but the types of faulty scouting,poor fundamentals, and mental mistakes have pretty much been routine since the 2006 season with the exception of the phenomenal 2008 season. We have had pretty much a complete turnover of the roster since then, and in some areas more than one turnover. There are a few personnel constants throughout all that time, and it isn't the players.

[ten ocho recon scout]

You've hit the nail on the head Shelback. The problem is at the top and filters down to the lowest level. Signing big names puts butts in the seats and that equates $$$. It's a business at the end of the day. I don't think Arte is the owner he portrays to be.

 

You've hit the nail on the head Shelback. The problem is at the top and filters down to the lowest level. Signing big names puts butts in the seats and that equates $$$. It's a business at the end of the day. I don't think Arte is the owner he portrays to be.

Arte is in it to make money, no doubt. That said, he is very dedicated to winning, and very competitive. He just hasnt made the best decisions.

[ten ocho recon scout]

It is very disappointing to see the Angels seemingly make the same error over and over.  GMJ was the solution at $50 million but he had only one year to base his high batting average and slugging percentage on.  Matthews turned out to be a complete bust.  Vernon Wells had a disaster contract that all the other teams in baseball avoided and laughed at.  It didn't stop Mr. Moreno and Tony Reagins from trading away Napoli for Wells.  Angel fans got to see first hand what a disaster Wells was and how well Napoli played for Texas.  Instead of waiting anxiously to see how great this season will turn out, we get to see another agonizing disaster (which should have been predicted) on a rebuilt cheap pitching staff slowly unfold.

 

The inept decision making has not only been with the offseason moves but in the drafting, signing of  players and international matters.  The Angels drafted Buster Posey and Matt Harvey but chose to bicker over money and did not sign them.  Can you imagine how good this team would be with those two on it?  The Angels had multiple 1st round and 1st round supplemental draft picks in the past few years but the only decent pitcher drafted was Garret Richards.  Now when the team needs two or more good pitchers to bring up they are not there but the old Kevin Jepsens (big fast ball but fire starter control) are still on the roster.  The good international players over the past couple of years have gone to the A's and Rangers but the Angels wouldn't shell out the money (it was "invested" in Wells, etc.).  The Dominican minor team and the international staff are still trying to recover from the international director who was stealing from the Angels international players.

 

I find this whole mess disheartening.  The Angels are now tied with the Astros in the standings.  Can this get any worse?

yes.....we could be below Houston.

 

Good post. Didnt the angels also draft bumgarner, only to lose him over money?

 

I agree, the international scouting has been very poor. Its like we only look for switch hitting middle infielders from the dominican, nothing else.

[Docwaukee]

every player is capable of certain things from year to year.  It's the gm's job to assess that based on info from scouting, stats and history . Yes those with insider info know more than the basic fan yet I think it's safe to assume that the individual players should be performing similarly to their most recent prior year unless they were injured or performing out of their mind.  As a collective group, it should even out and they should be about on par with expected. 

 

Was there anyone on this team who's previous year screamed massive regression?  Personally, I didn't think so.  I would expect mildly decreased production from Trout, Hamilton, Vargas.  Slightly increased from Pujols, Bourjos, Wilson.  Maybe Hanson.  The net is that of production similar to last year. 

 

A coach's job is to maximize the available talent level from any given player, to prepare their team for the games, and to manage the game in a way that promotes their team's strengths and hides their weaknesses.  If a group of players is capable of certain things yet not performing as such, then it is on the player and the coaches and not the gm.  

 

We have all watched the games and we know damn well that the players are not performing to their capability.  And that includes just about everyone on the team. I don't know what to do about it, but the easiest thing is to see if a new coach can provide a different look or approach.  Maybe it was happenstance last year, but bringing in a new hitting coach made a difference.  Perhaps a new pitching coach might do the same this year.