Does Anyone Dislike Mike Trout?

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Weaver is 200th all time in Pitcher WAR.

Some of the names above him on the list are very mediocre. Let's try not to splash around "greatness" like it's common.

It isn't.

That's why Trout is great. He is doing some amazing things that only the greats in the game did. He didn't just lead a category one year here and there.

You guys are all Hawk Harrelson juniors.

[Guest]

Weaver is 200th all time in Pitcher WAR.

While pitching WAR is not as nonsensical as defensive WAR, it is nevertheless not very useful bad a metric for ranking pitchers.

Some of the names above him on the list are very mediocre. Let's try not to splash around "greatness" like it's common.

It isn't.

the fact that many pitchers above Weaver on the list are comparatively mediocre demonstrates my point.

Weaver is not a perennial Cy Young candidate on his way to the HOF, but he's still one of the greatest pitchers in Angels franchise history.

That's why Trout is great. He is doing some amazing things that only the greats in the game did. He didn't just lead a category one year here and there.

You guys are all Hawk Harrelson juniors.

Trout is #2 in franchise history for offensive WAR, with 23.2, just 3 wins behind Tim Salmon with 26.3

Barring an injury Trout will have the highest career offensive WAR of any Angel by the end of this season

Edited July 17, 2015 by ScottLux

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Yeah. Trout is greatness.

Chuck Finley ranks 64 on the list and Tanana 67th (I have nothing to rank pitchers so I went with a metric everyone loves to use for Trout. What's good for him, not for others?)

Would people here say Weaver was greater than Finley? Or how about Tanana? He had four solid years also. He posted some great eras in a time when the halos couldn't score any runs.

Obviously Tanana's stay here wasn't lengthy. Finley of course did stay here most of his career.

Edited July 17, 2015 by SOTO

[Guest]

Yeah. Trout is greatness.

Chuck Finley ranks 64 on the list and Tanana 67th (I have nothing to rank pitchers so I went with a metric everyone loves to use for Trout. What's good for him, not for others?)

Would people here say Weaver was greater than Finley? Or how about Tanana? He had four solid years also. He posted some great eras in a time when the halos couldn't score any runs.

Obviously Tanana's stay here wasn't lengthy. Finley of course did stay here most of his career.

Tanana should be much higher than Finley. I would consider Weaver not far behind if not equal to Finley, but far behind Tanana or Ryan.

As for WAR, the offensive component is valid as it is an amalgam of objective stats like runs, hits, and stolen bases weighted in a clearly defined way based on stats of others from the same era. Defensive WAR is based on sketchy subjective judgment calls by fan scouts who don't even have access to accurate telemetry data. Historical defensive WAR before the year 2000 is basically made up.

Pitching WAR is based on FIP and is extremely biased against pitchers like Weaver. FIP would consider a line drive triple to the alley from Joe Blanton no different than an infield pop-up induced by Weaver.

[ten ocho recon scout]

You mean like how Weaver took less money to stay with us, has a few real good seasons with us, now that his arm is shot people shit all over him? Is that the kind of sentiment you're talking about? It might not be this group of fans but it might be guys like Hollywood Jr, or AO Jr, or tdawg jr, or Stradling Jr that will shit on Trout, because fans want results and have horribly short memories, and big mouths.

thats just crazy. I remember GA and vlads last year or 2 here and everybody loved them...

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

I'm definitely not a stat expert. I just chose the list because there is some science behind it and it exists.

Weaver still has a few years to raise his stock. My point is, and of course it depends on the value of the list, that guys like Peavy and Rick Ruschuel are above Weaver.

This franchise lacks greatness. Any really good guys we had spent a chunk of time with other teams.

I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but many of the records Salmon broke were held by Brian Downing. I like a little Clark Kent action from back in the day, but that's pretty embarrassing.

We are shallow when it comes to great players, which a big reason why the Angels aren't really represented in the HOF.

[mulwin444]

Yeah that's pretty good. How many Cy Youngs did he win? I don't seem him as being great. Not when people were questioning Kershaw's credentials here, who is a much better pitcher.

OK let's play semantics...great, good, legendary. Personal opinion. Kershaw's credentials aren't questioned because he's the only who attained those numbers since Pedro Martinez. That's bordering on legendary. Weaver was great for 4 seasons and has been pretry good for his career.

[Guest]

Weaver is 200th all time in Pitcher WAR.

Some of the names above him on the list are very mediocre. Let's try not to splash around "greatness" like it's common.

It isn't.

That's why Trout is great. He is doing some amazing things that only the greats in the game did. He didn't just lead a category one year here and there.

You guys are all Hawk Harrelson juniors.

The is more to a player than WAR. Honestly, you're doing a great disservice to advanced statistics with statements like that.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

What is an accepted measurement of pitching that can rank pitchers against each other?

[101halo]

Tanana should be much higher than Finley. I would consider Weaver not far behind if not equal to Finley, but far behind Tanana or Ryan.

As for WAR, the offensive component is valid as it is an amalgam of objective stats like runs, hits, and stolen bases weighted in a clearly defined way based on stats of others from the same era. Defensive WAR is based on sketchy subjective judgment calls by fan scouts who don't even have access to accurate telemetry data. Historical defensive WAR before the year 2000 is basically made up.

Pitching WAR is based on FIP and is extremely biased against pitchers like Weaver. FIP would consider a line drive triple to the alley from Joe Blanton no different than an infield pop-up induced by Weaver.

I don't personally believe defensive WAR (with either method of calculation) is 100% accurate, but this characterization of it as "fan scouting" is absolutely false. The fan scouting piece is available on FG but is not what goes into their math for WAR.

[HaloFan85]

Trout definitely has his share of 'haters' and they tend to center around the Harper 'fanboy' crowd.

[tdawg87]

Most Tigers fans. But only because he's better than their guy and don't want to admit it.

 

I hate Tigers fans so much.

[Jay]

Fast forward 12 years when he's getting paid $35 million a year and starts his decline, people on here will hate him.

 

He'll be a Yankee so it probably won't matter that much to us.

 

Edit: dammit Calzone

Edited July 17, 2015 by Jay

[Jay]

Anyway I was texting with a buddy of mine who lives in ATL.  Even people on the east coast are in love with Trout, maybe that's because he's an east coast kid.

 

Humble, ambassador to baseball, face of MLB, etc.

 

He said that last year during the Braves series Trout signed autographs for a half hour prior to the game.

[Ray McKigney]

Anyway I was texting with a buddy of mine who lives in ATL.  Even people on the east coast are in love with Trout, maybe that's because he's an east coast kid.

 

Humble, ambassador to baseball, face of MLB, etc.

 

He said that last year during the Braves series Trout signed autographs for a half hour prior to the game.

 

After the ASG, he said that he and Todd Frazier were flying that night together and they were both "Jersey boys." New Jersey residents must have blown a load when they heard him say that.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Most Tigers fans. But only because he's better than their guy and don't want to admit it.

I hate Tigers fans so much.

This. They've become the worst fans. They troll all Trout posts online. Some guy was giving me the "triple crown" business the other day.

I laughed.

[Dick B Back]

Whenever I see one of these threads, I keep waiting for someone to post the definition of great, and I never see it.

[Troll Daddy]

I tattooed my suv

Edited July 18, 2015 by Troll Daddy

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Here Dick:

great

ɡrāt/

adjective

1.

of an extent, amount, or intensity considerably above the normal or average.

"the article was of great interest"

synonyms: considerable, substantial, significant, appreciable, special, serious; More

2.

of ability, quality, or eminence considerably above the normal or average.

"the great Italian conductor"

synonyms: prominent, eminent, important, distinguished, illustrious, celebrated, honored, acclaimed, admired, esteemed, revered, renowned, notable, famous, famed, well known; More

noun

1.

a great or distinguished person.

"the Beatles, Bob Dylan, Jeff Mathis all the greats"

2.

BRITISHinformal

another term for Literae Humaniores.

adverbinformal

1.

excellently; very well.

"we played awful, they played great"

Edited July 18, 2015 by SOTO

[Dick B Back]

So based on this, Mathis' substantial squat made him great, correct?

[Dick B Back]

Or.. his greatness was defined by the size of his intangibles.

[Guest]

Whenever I see one of these threads, I keep waiting for someone to post the definition of great, and I never see it.

 

A picture says 1000 words:

 

Great

 

1) 

 

 

 

2)

 

 

 

3)

 

 

[Dick B Back]

A picture says 1000 words:

Great

1)

2)

3)

And look at the size of Mike's intangibles! Greatness personified!

[Dick B Back]

Ramon Ortiz proved how great he was by having a winning record while giving up a considerably above average number of home runs.

[Taylor]

Nope.