Angels need to sell and retool

[Troutstanding]

lol please tell me how you'd fix this team now and in the future. I'd really love to hear it

I don't claim to have any insight whatsoever into how to fix the team right now. Closer to the trade deadline I imagine we'll see some trades. I'm hopeful for a DH type bat and a left fielder, one of those two to lead off, ideally. However if we fall further down the standings we might see some of our soon-to-be free agents getting shipped off. 

[SoWhat]

I don't claim to have any insight whatsoever into how to fix the team right now. Closer to the trade deadline I imagine we'll see some trades. I'm hopeful for a DH type bat and a left fielder, one of those two to lead off, ideally. However if we fall further down the standings we might see some of our soon-to-be free agents getting shipped off.

Lol Yep, that's exactly what I thought.

If you want a LFer and DH, you're going to have to part with young pitching. The LFers and DH's available at the deadline aren't worth those arms, IMO. That's why I'm saying they need to get a cost controlled bat in return for those young arms, which is what I think Dipoto is trying to do, hence the rumors with the Cubs.

Oh and those soon to be FA's like Freese, Iannetta and Joyce aren't going to bring back anything except some minor league fillers.

Edited June 28, 2015 by SoWhat

[Stradling]

I have it on good authority (QM) that the playoffs are a crap shoot. With that in mind, since the division is wide open, we might as well trade pitching for a bat or two and throw our name in the post season hat. We just have to get lucky in October and not run into a buzzsaw. (I think I got all our post season cliches in one post). Oh one more, I'll be satisfied with just making the one game play in. (You're welcome QM)

Edited June 28, 2015 by Stradling

[nate]

I wouldn't deal Street but I agree that they need to retool this roster.  It will never be a good team as it stands.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

In your first post you called them productive players and now you're saying they won't bring anything back. I'm pretty sure a team will give up a decent piece for a productive player, don't you think? Lol

 

Sorry if you can't see how a player can be producing and still not be a valuable in a trade. Wilson's salary seriously limits his trade value, and in your own statement you said that relief pitchers are easily replaceable. Unless you are just making this up as you go, they are not valuable as trade chips.

[Troutstanding]

Lol Yep, that's exactly what I thought.

If you want a LFer and DH, you're going to have to part with young pitching. The LFers and DH's available at the deadline aren't worth those arms, IMO. That's why I'm saying they need to get a cost controlled bat in return for those young arms, which is what I think Dipoto is trying to do, hence the rumors with the Cubs.

Oh and those soon to be FA's like Freese, Iannetta and Joyce aren't going to bring back anything except some minor league fillers.

You can't have it both ways. If you trade off all anything with value AND trade our young pitching for young hitting... then what have you done? You've done deals for the sake of doing deals... and now? In June? There's nothing to DO now. Now is the time for patience. 

[SoWhat]

Sorry if you can't see how a player can be producing and still not be a valuable in a trade. Wilson's salary seriously limits his trade value, and in your own statement you said that relief pitchers are easily replaceable. Unless you are just making this up as you go, they are not valuable as trade chips.

If relievers aren't valuable trade chips then please explain to me how guys like Jake Thompson and Edwin Escobar were moved for relievers last year

[tomsred]

Thank you, finally someone who understands my point and isn't a complete asshat about it.

 

i.e., agree with me or you're an "asshat."

[SoWhat]

You can't have it both ways. If you trade off all anything with value AND trade our young pitching for young hitting... then what have you done? You've done deals for the sake of doing deals... and now? In June? There's nothing to DO now. Now is the time for patience.

Wtf are you talking about? I mean young bats like a Baez, Myers or Tucker(not necessarily those guys) not a singe-A bat that's a few years away. You have to give to get and the Angels can afford to give because of the pitching depth they have in the minors. You keep saying June, the season is half way over! The whole lineup except Pujols and Trout have been below league average, this isn't a half season slump they're in.

You want a LFer and DH, that's going to cost young pitching. The majority of those players available at the deadline are going to be in their 30's and past their prime. I'd rather give up cost controlled pitching for cost controlled bats, not for a temporary fix to make a run with a team full of below league average players.

Edited June 28, 2015 by SoWhat

[Troutstanding]

Wtf are you talking about? I mean young bats like a Baez, Myers or Tucker(not necessarily those guys) not a singe-A bat that's a few years away. You have to give to get and the Angels can afford to give because of the pitching depth they have in the minors. You keep saying June, the season is half way over! The whole lineup except Pujols and Trout have been below league average, this isn't a half season slump they're in.

You want a LFer and DH, that's going to cost young pitching. The majority of those players available at the deadline are going to be in their 30's and past their prime. I'd rather give up cost controlled pitching for cost controlled bats, not for a temporary fix to make a run with a team full of below league average players.

We aren't going anywhere with this conversation. Good luck with your trades. 

[SoWhat]

We aren't going anywhere with this conversation. Good luck with your trades.

That's what happens when you're a casual. Have a nice night

[tomsred]

The most rare commodity in baseball right now is young, cost controlled pitching with high ceilings.  The Angels better think long and hard about giving up any of that for uncertain offensive players.  I would rather try to turn over every rock possible on the offensive side with the players we have than give up any cost controlled pitching, even if it means we miss the playoffs this year.  But like Troutstanding said, "good luck with your trades."

 

We have over a month before we see what becomes available offensively, so far nothing excites me.

[SoWhat]

The most rare commodity in baseball right now is young, cost controlled pitching with high ceilings. The Angels better think long and hard about giving up any of that for uncertain offensive players. I would rather try to turn over every rock possible on the offensive side with the players we have than give up any cost controlled pitching, even if it means we miss the playoffs this year. But like Troutstanding said, "good luck with your trades."

We have over a month before we see what becomes available offensively, so far nothing excites me.

IMO, it's actually flip fopped. Offense is much harder to find than pitching.

But yes, let's keep claiming players like Neuwenhuis and Marte until we find a gem, when there's plenty of pitching depth throughout the system that the Angels can afford to part with.

Btw, when I mention young arms I'm talking about guys like Santiago, Ellis, Rhoades, Smith, Tropeano, etc. Not Newcomb or Heaney. Oh and don't forget Skaggs will be returning next season.

Edited June 28, 2015 by SoWhat

[Second Base]

The Angels are going to be busy at the deadline. They're going to deal excess pitching and make the long rumored moves to improve the team. They'll trade Jeremy Rhoades and a low level

RP for Adam Lind and Victor Alcantara and another mid-level RP for Ben Revere, which will piss off AW to no end, but it'll still be kind of funny. And in the end, the Angels will have a better lineup. It won't be as good as last year, but it'll be consistently solid.

LF Revere, RF Calhoun CF Trout 1B Pujols DH Lind

That's a decent enough top 5 to score more than 2 runs a game.

Heaney's also going to break into the rotation full time and in the offseason, the Angels will deal Santiago, Tropeano, Cron and a RP for a Jose Bautista type.

[Blarg]

The Angels are not the A's, constantly trading today for tomorrows potential, then trading all of that away as well.

Edited June 28, 2015 by notti

[Stradling]

I'm guessing Sonny Gray gets traded this off season.

[Blarg]

Not by the deadline? That would be so un-Beane like.

[Stradling]

Kazmir is all but traded at the deadline. Vogt might be traded. Hell I wouldn't mind having that accountant looking dude instead of Featherston.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

If relievers aren't valuable trade chips then please explain to me how guys like Jake Thompson and Edwin Escobar were moved for relievers last year

You said that relief pitchers are easily replaced. If that is true, why would anyone trade any prospect of any consequence for one of them?

Edited June 28, 2015 by Vegas Halo Fan

[Blarg]

Eric Sogard with his .590 OPS? He is David Carradine from the Revenge of the Nerds without the personality.

Stick to burger making and stay out of the GM's chair.

[Second Base]

RP's a fickly and a bullpen is a heck of thing to try and build.  The most important thing in terms of building a bullpen is options, because it's guaranteed that someone you thought was going to be good is going to fall off a cliff.  It happens every year.  Morin and Salas haven't been good this year, Rasmus has been hurt and Smith has gone from one of the best in baseball to just pretty good.

 

And yet the Angels have still had a better bullpen so far this year than anytime in the last five.  Why?  DEPTH.  

 

That's why Dipoto goes about acquiring guys like Winkler for Krauss and holds onto Bedrosian, Gott, Hyatt, Paredes, Mahle, Adams and Wesely.

 

You never know, next year, Street, Salas and Smith might be totally done, but Bedrosian, Morin and Mahle might step up.  Gott's been amazing and maybe he comes back down to earth next year and Adams steps in. 

[tomsred]

RP's a fickly and a bullpen is a heck of thing to try and build.  The most important thing in terms of building a bullpen is options, because it's guaranteed that someone you thought was going to be good is going to fall off a cliff.  It happens every year.  Morin and Salas haven't been good this year, Rasmus has been hurt and Smith has gone from one of the best in baseball to just pretty good.

 

And yet the Angels have still had a better bullpen so far this year than anytime in the last five.  Why?  DEPTH.  

 

That's why Dipoto goes about acquiring guys like Winkler for Krauss and holds onto Bedrosian, Gott, Hyatt, Paredes, Mahle, Adams and Wesely.

 

You never know, next year, Street, Salas and Smith might be totally done, but Bedrosian, Morin and Mahle might step up.  Gott's been amazing and maybe he comes back down to earth next year and Adams steps in. 

 

 

I totally agree, RP depth is critical.  Guys look good one year and are totally inept the next, and vice versa.

 

Starters are more constant, you're looking more for hidden gems who can last 3-5 years anyway.  However, there will be situations where some we thought could step in won't cut the grade.  So we need a surplus there as well, that's why I'm not keen on trading away potential starters for marginal offensive help.  We all have differing options on this, but Revere and Lind are marginal as far as real help is concerned.  These guys have been operating in the NL, then they suddenly would be exposed to AL pitchers that they see much less frequently.

[SoWhat]

You said that relief pitchers are easily replaced. If that is true, why would anyone trade any prospect of any consequence for one of them?

Geez, idk maybe because you can't sign one midseason.

[Second Base]

I totally agree, RP depth is critical.  Guys look good one year and are totally inept the next, and vice versa.

 

Starters are more constant, you're looking more for hidden gems who can last 3-5 years anyway.  However, there will be situations where some we thought could step in won't cut the grade.  So we need a surplus there as well, that's why I'm not keen on trading away potential starters for marginal offensive help.  We all have differing options on this, but Revere and Lind are marginal as far as real help is concerned.  These guys have been operating in the NL, then they suddenly would be exposed to AL pitchers that they see much less frequently.

 

Revere and Lind would be solid upgrades, but not superstar types that put butts in seats, that's for sure.  Revere is so much better than Joyce it hurts.  Lind, well he's better than whatever it is we're doing with DH.  I feel like this gives the Angels a leadoff hitter and steady LF for the next 3 years, a #5 hitter and importantly, two LHB. 

 

I love having pitching depth, but on a 3-5 year outlook, when you're 12 deep it's borderline insanity to keep all of them.  Now granted, Weav & Wilson will either hit FA or be traded, Santiago and Shoe may be traded, and perhaps 2 more of the possibilities just won't pan out as starters. That still leaves the Angels 6 deep in the future on the basis that they add no other SP in the next few years, which I can almost guarantee you they will via the draft. 

 

They almost have to trade two SP, possibly three in the next nine months. 

[NrM]

Part of the problem is with the lack of offensive talent in the minors. The angels usually have guys that can step up when the vets struggle or get injured.

 

The farm system seems to have regressed in overall talent this year.

Something I didn't think was possible, 

Edited June 28, 2015 by Poozy