Pete Rose can kiss reinstatement goodbye

[Redondo]

http://nypost.com/2015/05/31/how-ty-cobb-was-framed-as-a-racist/

Cobb isn't the SOB many think he is.

 

Good read. Really clears up a lot of misinformation that is out there.

[Angelsfirst]

I don't think I knew that.

Nevermind, been a while since I saw the Ken Burns documentary. It was the first ever Angel home game, but it was at Wrigley Field in LA in 1961. He was a friend of Fred Haney, the manager of the Angels in 61', who had played for Cobb in the 1920's.

Edited June 23, 2015 by Angelsfirst

[Guest]

I am always astonished how people can drunk post at 6:12 PM.

I call those people lightweights. 

[ELEVEN]

Nevermind, been a while since I saw the Ken Burns documentary. It was the first ever Angel home game, but it was at Wrigley Field in LA in 1961. He was a friend of Fred Haney, the manager of the Angels in 61', who had played for Cobb in the 1920's.

Bill Rigney was Manager in 1961. Haney was GM.

I am old.

[Brandon]

Eh, have Rose admit and do coke, beat his chick, roids, and all the other worse shit that players have done in the past 20 years that make gambling look like childs play to get in.

 

Trips me out that pine tar gets x amount of games, but betting gets lifetime ban and future repercussions. 

[Angelsfirst]

Bill Rigney was Manager in 1961. Haney was GM.

I am old.

You're right, can't seem to get my facts straight on this one. Still interesting though, you would never think of Ty Cobb being associated with the Angels.

[disarcina]

yeah -- this latest revelation probably dooms Pete Rose's chances at reinstatement......

 

what I don't like is that this latest revelation -- which someone has probably been holding on to for years -- was timed to torpedo any chance that Rose would be reinstated and, perhaps, even as soon as this year's All Star Game which is being played where??? Cincinnati..........

[eaterfan]

yeah -- this latest revelation probably dooms Pete Rose's chances at reinstatement......

what I don't like is that this latest revelation -- which someone has probably been holding on to for years -- was timed to torpedo any chance that Rose would be reinstated and, perhaps, even as soon as this year's All Star Game which is being played where??? Cincinnati..........

I agree. They should have waited until after he got in.

[Puget Sound Angel]

Rose also pulls other sh!t to piss off baseball. He holds his little autograph signing party a few feet away from the Hall of Fame inductions. He resides in Vegas and practically lives in casinos. He still bets heavily. This is no way to win baseball over.

[Jeff Fletcher]

It puzzles me why people don't get this distinction....

Sports can't exist if they aren't legitimately competitive, so everyone is trying to win and no one knows the outcome in advance. It would be pro wrestling, which has a nice little niche but is nothing compared to regular sports.

That's why the idea of people betting on games and throwing them is far worse than the participants being bad people (doing drugs, abusing women, etc.) That's also why having players, managers, etc. betting is different than fans, which baseball encourages.

Sure, a couple players betting doesn't turn baseball into wrestling. And betting on your own team doesn't either. But how do you write that rule?

It's ok if a few people do it. It's ok if you bet on your own team as long as you do everything exactly the same as you would have if you didn't.

So the easiest way is to just make a flat rule.

You bet. You're out.

That's the rule and Pete Rose knew it.

[mtangelsfan]

It puzzles me why people don't get this distinction....

Sports can't exist if they aren't legitimately competitive, so everyone is trying to win and no one knows the outcome in advance. It would be pro wrestling, which has a nice little niche but is nothing compared to regular sports.

That's why the idea of people betting on games and throwing them is far worse than the participants being bad people (doing drugs, abusing women, etc.) That's also why having players, managers, etc. betting is different than fans, which baseball encourages.

Sure, a couple players betting doesn't turn baseball into wrestling. And betting on your own team doesn't either. But how do you write that rule?

It's ok if a few people do it. It's ok if you bet on your own team as long as you do everything exactly the same as you would have if you didn't.

So the easiest way is to just make a flat rule.

You bet. You're out.

That's the rule and Pete Rose knew it.

 

Good post, I honestly think that the folks who are still arguing this are just contrarians who basically are opposed to most rules in general.

[ELEVEN]

As a General rule I am Generally opposed to most rules.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

How many times can you punish a dog for peeing on a rug.

Betting on baseball is bad. Pete lied. So did everyone else that tried to cover their ass for something.

He's not in a position to throw games now.

Close the book on this suspension at 22 years or whatever it is, and get him back in the game.

He's the hit King. He's Charlie hustle. Jesus.

He can't hurt anything now except with atrocious clothing style and haircut.

[eaterfan]

How many times can you punish a dog for peeing on a rug.

Betting on baseball is bad. Pete lied. So did everyone else that tried to cover their ass for something.

He's not in a position to throw games now.

Close the book on this suspension at 22 years or whatever it is, and get him back in the game.

He's the hit King. He's Charlie hustle. Jesus.

He can't hurt anything now except with atrocious clothing style and haircut.

It's one punishment. It's a lifelong ban.

[ELEVEN]

He's the hit King. He's Charlie hustle. Jesus.

I think the Oxford Comma would have been useful here.

#holytrinitybatman

Edited June 23, 2015 by ELEVEN

[mtangelsfan]

How many times can you punish a dog for peeing on a rug.

Betting on baseball is bad. Pete lied. So did everyone else that tried to cover their ass for something.

He's not in a position to throw games now.

Close the book on this suspension at 22 years or whatever it is, and get him back in the game.

He's the hit King. He's Charlie hustle. Jesus.

He can't hurt anything now except with atrocious clothing style and haircut.

 

Pete agreed to the rules before he signed his contract.  He was aware what betting on baseball would do.  He made the choice to do so.  Shouldn't people be held accountable for their actions?

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Pete agreed to the rules before he signed his contract. He was aware what betting on baseball would do. He made the choice to do so. Shouldn't people be held accountable for their actions?

So ban him from participating or having an effect in on-field play. No coaching or managing.

Remove him from situations where he potentially could affect the outcome of a game.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

It's one punishment. It's a lifelong ban.

Dudes kill people and do quick time and return to eating double doubles for lunch at in-n-out.

The eye for an eye and hyper vigilant mindset here in the approach to people who make mistakes is ridiculous.

It's a fûcking game...

What is a lifetime ban doing? Protecting the integrity of the game, protecting the fans?

Yet we can have 8 Royals and Omar Infante starting the ASG?

Vilify all these greats. Bonds, Rose, Arod, Sosa, Manny Ramirez, Ralston Schmidt.... and years from now you can have your Omar Infante on a pedestal because he played the game clean or whatever.

Pete's been punished plenty. He was hit where it hurts. There are such blurred lines with gambling in sports. Fan Duel, Draft Kings? Gambling. The NBA commish wants a piece of the gambling action.

[eaterfan]

Dudes kill people and do quick time and return to eating double doubles for lunch at in-n-out.

The eye for an eye and hyper vigilant mindset here in the approach to people who make mistakes is ridiculous.

It's a fûcking game...

What is a lifetime ban doing? Protecting the integrity of the game, protecting the fans?

Yet we can have 8 Royals and Omar Infante starting the ASG?

Vilify all these greats. Bonds, Rose, Arod, Sosa, Manny Ramirez, Ralston Schmidt.... and years from now you can have your Omar Infante on a pedestal because he played the game clean or whatever.

Pete's been punished plenty. He was hit where it hurts. There are such blurred lines with gambling in sports. Fan Duel, Draft Kings? Gambling. The NBA commish wants a piece of the gambling action.

By that same "it's just a game logic" it's just the Hall of Fame. They don't have him in prison. They haven't killed him. They haven't stricken his records from the record books.

I could even make the argument he isn't even being punished. You look at the Hall of Fame as a right that is being taken from him. I see it as a privilege he didn't earn. A privilege one earns after being an outstanding overall contributor to the game of baseball.

Also can we please separate crimes against the law and crimes against baseball? Jeff Fletcher explained it in a simple way that everyone can understand in this thread.

[Docwaukee]

Dudes kill people and do quick time and return to eating double doubles for lunch at in-n-out.

The eye for an eye and hyper vigilant mindset here in the approach to people who make mistakes is ridiculous.

It's a fûcking game...

What is a lifetime ban doing? Protecting the integrity of the game, protecting the fans?

Yet we can have 8 Royals and Omar Infante starting the ASG?

Vilify all these greats. Bonds, Rose, Arod, Sosa, Manny Ramirez, Ralston Schmidt.... and years from now you can have your Omar Infante on a pedestal because he played the game clean or whatever.

Pete's been punished plenty. He was hit where it hurts. There are such blurred lines with gambling in sports. Fan Duel, Draft Kings? Gambling. The NBA commish wants a piece of the gambling action.

the reason is very simple.  

 

a lack of contrition on the part of Rose.  

 

if someone is trying to get parole, they don't go in front of the parole board and say they want to get out because they never did what they were convicted of in the first place and the penalty was too harsh regardless  

 

There are two forces at work here.  

 

1.  The lifetime ban.

2.  His behavior thereafter.  

 

One the rule is broken and the punishment is assigned, the impetus is on the potential parolee to turn things around and convince the enforcing body that he/she deserves grace.

 

Rose has had 25 years to convince major league baseball they made a mistake.  Instead, he's thumbed his nose at them and continued to represent a lie all the while continuing the pattern of behavior that got him pitched.  

 

Why is it major league baseball's responsibility to make a concession when Rose has made none? 

Edited June 23, 2015 by Dochalo

[CaliAngel]

Good post, I honestly think that the folks who are still arguing this are just contrarians who basically are opposed to most rules in general.

I agree. And I also agree with much of what Mr. Fletcher said as well.

Seems to be a lot of that in the interwebs. One big cesspool of chaotic "that rule doesn't apply because something something justification." It gets old.

Rules is rules. If they weren't we wouldn't call them that.

[Jeff Fletcher]

So ban him from participating or having an effect in on-field play. No coaching or managing.

Remove him from situations where he potentially could affect the outcome of a game.

That's exactly what happened. No one has thrown him in jail.

The extent of his punishment - from MLB - is just that.

Whether he's eligible for the HOF is a separate issue to be decided by the HOF, not MLB.

[eaterfan]

The thing that people are ignoring is that there was no rule that said you can't make the Hall of Fame if you bet on baseball. It was just a lifetime ban. The HOF rule was created after the Rose stuff came out, which is BS. Can we also create a rule that says any team named the Kansas City Royals is ineligible to make the playoffs, and give the Angels last year's title?

As far as Rose making the Hall of Fame, though, they should get rid of the rule and then just not vote him in based on the numbers posted earlier. I never realized he was that bad at baseball.

The Hall of Fame made the rule, not MLB. Any change that would keep the Royals out of the playoffs would be subject to MLB's constitution and the CBA.

[ten ocho recon scout]

How many times can you punish a dog for peeing on a rug.

Betting on baseball is bad. Pete lied. So did everyone else that tried to cover their ass for something.

He's not in a position to throw games now.

Close the book on this suspension at 22 years or whatever it is, and get him back in the game.

He's the hit King. He's Charlie hustle. Jesus.

He can't hurt anything now except with atrocious clothing style and haircut.

wanted to mention that haircut. It was horrid. Bote that its similar to the sandy hook killer and that guy who shot up the church last week...men should not rock a dorothy hammel hair doo

[stormngt]

How did he cheat? Gambling isn't cheating. It gives no athletic advantage.

cobb was a cocksucker of the highest order, but did he cheat? rose cheated. lied about cheating, then lied about his lying about cheating. the dude had a reservation on the wall, but threw it away and has only himself to blame. although, he's spent half a life time blaming others.