Erick Aybar Leadoff

[robblin17]

I always laugh when people try and argue with certain posters on this board. Just let them swing from the Angels nuts and be satisfied with a team that does not compete for a championship year after year after year. They will never change their tune and are too stubborn/brainwashed to realize when they are wrong or misguided.

[QuinlansMinion]

I always laugh when people try and argue with certain posters on this board. Just let them swing from the Angels nuts and be satisfied with a team that does not compete for a championship year after year after year. They will never change their tune and are too stubborn/brainwashed to realize when they are wrong or misguided.

Well said. Angels fans think division titles are special and that championship teams only win because they are lucky.

[Blarg]

And some think every season Scioscia needs to be fired and the team completely dismantled because they can't win.

 

 

Like last season.

[ScottT]

The lineup may not be a big deal, but it isn't difficult figure out some of these things.... like Aybar being a poor choice to hit directly in front of your best two hitters... and get the most plate appearances on the team.  While it probably won't cost the team a playoff spot, it could.  20 years ago they ended up tied... and many more teams have had things come down to the last day in recent years.  

 

I'd just go back to batting Calhoun, Trout, and Pujols  1-3, but tonight is better and nothing to bitch about.  Bottom line is the Angels need someone to step up offensively or to acquire a productive offensive player. Scioscia doesn't have many good options right now. 

[QuinlansMinion]

And some think every season Scioscia needs to be fired and the team completely dismantled because they can't win.

Like last season.

So when the team wins its because of Scioscia. And when they lose its because of the players.

Strong logic.

[Stradling]

Well said. Angels fans think division titles are special and that championship teams only win because they are lucky.

And some fans are repetitive and delusional.

[Blarg]

So when the team wins its because of Scioscia. And when they lose its because of the players.

Strong logic.

 

Congratulations, you won your own argument.

 

Now, do you want to keep talking to yourself or join the conversation?

[Blarg]

So when the team wins its because of Scioscia. And when they lose its because of the players.

Strong logic.

 

Congratulations, you won your own argument.

 

Now, do you want to keep talking to yourself or join the conversation?

[Blarg]

Aybar leading off 0-4.

Enough of this bullshit!

[QuinlansMinion]

And some fans are repetitive and delusional.

Youre right. Every year its the same oh we just got unlucky argument.

[stormngt]

Your nuts

Richards wasn't an ace until last year and your talking like he is Kershaw. He is also coming off a devastating injury so a regression should have been expected.

The Rangers have Beltre and Fielder. No they are not on the level of Trout and Pujols but they are not dogs either. Fact is outside of Aybar, Trout, Pujols , Calhoun, and a mediocre Freese the Angels offensive players are not worthy to be in the Pacific Coast league.

You mentioned all the things we dont have. What about all the things we do have? The Rangers dont have a duo like Trout and Albert, and they dont have an ace like Richards. Explain to me how we are behind them? This team is too talented to be in 3rd.

[Stradling]

And every year you think we suck because we don't win the World Series

[stormngt]

Idiots who don't understand sports think division titles don't matter if you don't win the World Series.

I really feel sorry for fans like you. You can't enjoy the excitement of competing. It's all about winning. Not just winning but winning it all. Hey only one team wins it all a year. I for one likes to appreciate the excitement of a successful season like last year and not view it as a failure because you didn't win it all.

Well said. Angels fans think division titles are special and that championship teams only win because they are lucky.

[robblin17]

Idiots who don't understand sports think division titles don't matter if you don't win the World Series.

I really feel sorry for fans like you. You can't enjoy the excitement of competing. It's all about winning. Not just winning but winning it all. Hey only one team wins it all a year. I for one likes to appreciate the excitement of a successful season like last year and not view it as a failure because you didn't win it all.

 

 

Why are people idiots for wanting/expecting to win a championship every year?

 

And why do you feel sorry? If it is not about winning, then what is it about? I could say I feel sorry that you're happy being a participant in the playoffs, but that is your deal. I do not care. If it makes you feel better that the division was a consolation prize then good for you, but some people expect more. Winning the division was exciting, but it really did not mean much in the grand scheme of things. No one is going to remember the 2014 Angels and how great of a division winner they were or that they won 98 games.

 

I am not saying the Angels need to win a championship every season, obviously, but having expectations to seriously compete for a championship should be the norm. That's the message the players and FO send to the fans, so when that is not happening, which it is not, of course fans are going to be disappointed. Winners expect to win every year and losers are okay with anything less than a championship. It is what it is. 

[Mark68]

Why are people idiots for wanting/expecting to win a championship every year?

 

And why do you feel sorry? If it is not about winning, then what is it about? I could say I feel sorry that you're happy being a participant in the playoffs, but that is your deal. I do not care. If it makes you feel better that the division was a consolation prize then good for you, but some people expect more. Winning the division was exciting, but it really did not mean much in the grand scheme of things. No one is going to remember the 2014 Angels and how great of a division winner they were or that they won 98 games.

 

I am not saying the Angels need to win a championship every season, obviously, but having expectations to seriously compete for a championship should be the norm. That's the message the players and FO send to the fans, so when that is not happening, which it is not, of course fans are going to be disappointed. Winners expect to win every year and losers are okay with anything less than a championship. It is what it is. 

That's exactly what the Angels were in the playoffs last year: a participant. The players probably all got "participant" ribbons, which is about what they deserved.

 

I, too, want to win championships. Sometimes that is impossible, like during rebuilding periods. Sometimes a team has to be stripped down before it can be rebuilt into a championship contender.

 

I'm not saying that is where this team is, but I certainly don't want year after year of mediocrity, which is what we've been seeing despite last year's exception (and early bounce from the postseason).

[Stradling]

To think a season is worthless if you aren't the champion is ridiculous. It would basically be like saying if you aren't the best sales man in your company or the best doctor at your hospital then you failed. With that line of thinking how do you even enjoy sports, especially baseball where you fail to win at least 60 games a year. Also like Mark said, what about transitional years or rebuilds, those seasons are shitty? Give me a break. Giancarlo Stanton sucks and had a shitty year because he wasn't the MVP. Actually the only acceptable award was World Series MVP, because more than likely that person was on the winning team.

[Angel Oracle]

Giovatella's OBP is some 30 points higher than Aybar's.   Why is it again that Aybar is leading off? 

[Angel Oracle]

To think a season is worthless if you aren't the champion is ridiculous. It would basically be like saying if you aren't the best sales man in your company or the best doctor at your hospital then you failed. With that line of thinking how do you even enjoy sports, especially baseball where you fail to win at least 60 games a year. Also like Mark said, what about transitional years or rebuilds, those seasons are shitty? Give me a break. Giancarlo Stanton sucks and had a shitty year because he wasn't the MVP. Actually the only acceptable award was World Series MVP, because more than likely that person was on the winning team.

I just want to get back to the ALCS, only two appearances there in the past 12 seasons+ and none since 2009.

[robblin17]

To think a season is worthless if you aren't the champion is ridiculous. It would basically be like saying if you aren't the best sales man in your company or the best doctor at your hospital then you failed. With that line of thinking how do you even enjoy sports, especially baseball where you fail to win at least 60 games a year. Also like Mark said, what about transitional years or rebuilds, those seasons are shitty? Give me a break. Giancarlo Stanton sucks and had a shitty year because he wasn't the MVP. Actually the only acceptable award was World Series MVP, because more than likely that person was on the winning team.

 

I was talking about the current Angels' team. There can also be different levels of failure, too. Losing in the WS would be less of a failure but could still be seen as a pretty successful season, albeit missing the goal. I would trade 98 wins and a division title for sneaking in as a WC if it meant actually making a legitimate run at it. That's what it is all about. 

 

This team's goal, I would assume, is to win a championship. I'd be shocked if any player said last year was not a failure, so why is it stupid for fans to have those same expectations? As a fan, I want my team to see last year as a failure. That's what will help make them even hungrier to win. 

Edited June 17, 2015 by robblin17

[Guest]

And every year you think we suck because we don't win the World Series

The late George Steinbrenner defined any season that did not end in a World Series championship as a failure. There is nothing wrong with having high standards.

[mulwin444]

Again, this is an "Expectations VS Reality" situation. Right after 2002, the Angels had a solid farm system and made some moves and signings that positioned them as the dominant team in the division for nearly a decade.  Along the way, they leveraged prospects and draft position in an effort to win the championship that eluded them since 2002.  The end result was, in 2010, a barren farm system and more problems than they could buy or trade their way out of at the time.  Prospects that were supposed to lead the way to a new generation of Angels regulars, fell off the map (Brandon Wood, Jeff Mathis), established players aged faster than expected (Abreu, Shields) and a key injury killed momentum (Morales).  In the 2011, they tried to turn things around by attempting to sign Crawford and/or Beltre and, failing both, made a mind-bogglingly ill-advised trade for what was recognized at the time as a declining player with an "untradeable" contract in Vernon Wells.  Move after move during the Reagins era and into the early Dipoto era sacrificed new blood for acquiring aging vets (Pineiro, Pujols, Hamilton, Wilson).  In the Pujols, Wilson, and Hamilton signings it appeared that Moreno tried to revisit the 2003 offseason when they struck gold with Vlad and Escobar and got a decent return from the failed Jose Guillen signing (Izturis, Rivera).  The reality is they are attempting to rebuild the farm, acquire depth and production at an affordable price and stay in the race for the AL West...quite a balancing act.  There is a definite dividing line between the moves that have Arte's fingerprints on them and ones that Dipoto seems to have initiated and they are more evident in last two seasons.  Last season, when Richards went down, it exposed a glaring need in our MLB ready starting pitching depth.  In response, Dipoto set out to make a series of canny moves that made the options 9 deep.  Then the question after that is usually: "What about the offense?".  Well, I don't think Dipoto anticipated a scenario where they would lose their starting LF's numbers to a drug confession, probably didn't forsee Ianetta's performance go from 122 OPS+ to 52 in an offseason, anticipated continued development of Cron who dropped from 110 OPS+ to 46, foresaw Joyce as something better than one of the worst offensive players in league, and I'm sure saw Calhoun as more like the 2013/2014 version.  As it stands right now, they need two solid bats in LF and DH that they've tried to fill with internal options that were counted on to contribute but nothing is there so its going to take time.  You can expect "Championship now" but the truth is the offensive talent is either underperming or not there and hasty moves to improve "now" is doing little to help build a sustainable winner.  I am not accepting mediocrity...I am accepting reality and the understanding that smart moves - productive, enduring moves - take time to materialize and execute.  

[Lou]

Youre right. Every year its the same oh we just got unlucky argument.

i don't recall anyone saying we were unlucky last year

[Blarg]

I clearly remember the 1979 team, maybe not all of the players but the core and the Yes We Can playoffs.

 

Same with '82, 86, of course 2002 and the World series along with 2004, 2005, 2007, 2008, and Vlads last season with the Angels kicking Boston's ass out of the playoffs in 2009.

 

So, Robblin, why the **** would I not remember the 98 win 2014 season just because they didn't go to the World Series?

Edited June 17, 2015 by notti

[Angel Oracle]

Again, this is an "Expectations VS Reality" situation. Right after 2002, the Angels had a solid farm system and made some moves and signings that positioned them as the dominant team in the division for nearly a decade.  Along the way, they leveraged prospects and draft position in an effort to win the championship that eluded them since 2002.  The end result was, in 2010, a barren farm system and more problems than they could buy or trade their way out of at the time.  Prospects that were supposed to lead the way to a new generation of Angels regulars, fell off the map (Brandon Wood, Jeff Mathis), established players aged faster than expected (Abreu, Shields) and a key injury killed momentum (Morales).  In the 2011, they tried to turn things around by attempting to sign Crawford and/or Beltre and, failing both, made a mind-bogglingly ill-advised trade for what was recognized at the time as a declining player with an "untradeable" contract in Vernon Wells.  Move after move during the Reagins era and into the early Dipoto era sacrificed new blood for acquiring aging vets (Pineiro, Pujols, Hamilton, Wilson).  In the Pujols, Wilson, and Hamilton signings it appeared that Moreno tried to revisit the 2003 offseason when they struck gold with Vlad and Escobar and got a decent return from the failed Jose Guillen signing (Izturis, Rivera).  The reality is they are attempting to rebuild the farm, acquire depth and production at an affordable price and stay in the race for the AL West...quite a balancing act.  There is a definite dividing line between the moves that have Arte's fingerprints on them and ones that Dipoto seems to have initiated and they are more evident in last two seasons.  Last season, when Richards went down, it exposed a glaring need in our MLB ready starting pitching depth.  In response, Dipoto set out to make a series of canny moves that made the options 9 deep.  Then the question after that is usually: "What about the offense?".  Well, I don't think Dipoto anticipated a scenario where they would lose their starting LF's numbers to a drug confession, probably didn't forsee Ianetta's performance go from 122 OPS+ to 52 in an offseason, anticipated continued development of Cron who dropped from 110 OPS+ to 46, foresaw Joyce as something better than one of the worst offensive players in league, and I'm sure saw Calhoun as more like the 2013/2014 version.  As it stands right now, they need two solid bats in LF and DH that they've tried to fill with internal options that were counted on to contribute but nothing is there so its going to take time.  You can expect "Championship now" but the truth is the offensive talent is either underperming or not there and hasty moves to improve "now" is doing little to help build a sustainable winner.  I am not accepting mediocrity...I am accepting reality and the understanding that smart moves - productive, enduring moves - take time to materialize and execute.  

This is why if they entertain ANY thoughts of trading Santiago, Tropeano, Ellis, and Rhoades, they had better dang well be sure that the acquisition will perform to their expectations.    No more bad trades, por favor!    Gracias!  

[Lou]

This is why if they entertain ANY thoughts of trading Santiago, Tropeano, Ellis, and Rhoades, they had better dang well be sure that the acquisition will perform to their expectations.    No more bad trades, por favor!    Gracias!

i'm pretty sure they want that every

time they make a deal