Gameday Thread: Angels @ Rays (6/9/2015)

[fan_since79]

weren't you one of the folks suggesting that Calhoun could be more useful further down the lineup so he could drive in runs?

 

Also, you were also complaining about Pujols hitting third when he's been hitting pretty damn well.

 

Not that I recall.

[Stradling]

Now batting clean up for the Angels Erick Aybar, that sound pretty sweet.

[Ray McKigney]

This article pretty much explains Scioscia's thinking:

 

"His on-base is not going to be off the charts, but it's not going to be awful, either. He's going to get on base enough, get in scoring position enough to where he can still be effective as a table-setter."

 

Erick Aybar is feeling more comfortable as Angels' leadoff man

[Stradling]

I am blown away (I am as much to blame i guess as anyone because I get sucked in) that we still bitch about the line up when the line up has basically four good hitters. As far as Calhoun hitting fourth, I don't get the outrage here about it. People here are blaming Sosh for batting Kole fourth because his numbers are down. Well is it Sosh's fault that Kole's numbers are down or is it Kole's fault they are down? Don't you all remember what it was like to not have an RBI out of the four hole for, I think it was 17 straight games? Someone said it best, polishing a turd. Kole is best suited for leadoff, but he is still probably our best option for clean up as well.

[tdawg87]

I don't care about the lineup but it seems like it's about time to move Pujols and Trout down one spot. Have Calhoun hit 2nd.

[Stradling]

I don't have a problem with that tdawg, but why would you do it, what is your reasoning? Is it to give Calhoun some protection? Is that worth Albert not having protection? I am asking your opinion, not questioning your opinion.

[Ray McKigney]

I don't care about the lineup but it seems like it's about time to move Pujols and Trout down one spot. Have Calhoun hit 2nd.

 

That would be ****ing terrific.

[Jason]

No matter how you polish a turd it is still a turd

[mtangelsfan]

So I assume that everyone thinks it is just a coincedence that Albert started hitting better when Calhoun moved to cleanup?

[tdawg87]

I don't have a problem with that tdawg, but why would you do it, what is your reasoning? Is it to give Calhoun some protection? Is that worth Albert not having protection? I am asking your opinion, not questioning your opinion.

 

It gives the lineup a bit more balance, instead of being so top heavy. I do also feel that Calhoun gets better pitches to hit batting in front of Trout. As for Pujols, it's possible that having an actual good lefty hitting behind him has given him better pitches to hit, hence his recent hot streak. That said, Freese is currently hitting just as well as Calhoun (minus the average) and people don't seem to realize that. I think he can provide the same protection Calhoun has provided.

 

But there's really no right answer here. Sosh has a crappy lineup to work with.

[WallyWorld]

I am blown away (I am as much to blame i guess as anyone because I get sucked in) that we still bitch about the line up when the line up has basically four good hitters. As far as Calhoun hitting fourth, I don't get the outrage here about it. People here are blaming Sosh for batting Kole fourth because his numbers are down. Well is it Sosh's fault that Kole's numbers are down or is it Kole's fault they are down? Don't you all remember what it was like to not have an RBI out of the four hole for, I think it was 17 straight games? Someone said it best, polishing a turd. Kole is best suited for leadoff, but he is still probably our best option for clean up as well.

 

Strad, I'm with you on the lineup bitching (as much as I take part in it as well). And game to game, it's pretty silly to complain about where guys hit. But I think it's fair to point out trends and question why steps aren't being taken to address those trends.

 

You mention the team having 4 good hitters, and I agree - so wouldn't it make sense to bat those 4 guys at the top, so that they get the most ABs? And no, Aybar isn't one of those 4 guys, nor has he ever been.

 

And do you really think Kole is a better option for clean-up than Pujols? Isn't it fair at this point to say that it doesn't seem like the clean-up spot suits Calhoun?

 

(Not picking a fight, just asking your honest opinion.)

[tdawg87]

So I assume that everyone thinks it is just a coincedence that Albert started hitting better when Calhoun moved to cleanup?

 

He started hitting better at the end of April when Calhoun was still batting leadoff. I assume you're referring to his more recent tear which is a pretty small sample size to say Calhoun had any significant impact on it.

[Angelsfirst]

I don't have a problem with that tdawg, but why would you do it, what is your reasoning? Is it to give Calhoun some protection? Is that worth Albert not having protection? I am asking your opinion, not questioning your opinion.

I agree with tdawg. I like Johnny leading off, then Kole, Trout and Albert. Freese in the 5 spot. I feel like Kole is more of a prototypical number 2 hitter and would have the most success there. He'll get better pitches to hit with Trout hitting behind him. I believe Trout's numbers are better with Kole ahead of him as well.

Also, if Calhoun isn't hitting well behind Albert then he's not providing much protection. I think this current hot streak that Albert is on is more of a product of him settling into the season as he is known for being a notoriously slow starter.

[hen3ry]

The only way order matters really is protection. If the guy on deck is a scrub, you don't need to throw strikes to the guy you're facing now. Literally anyone other than Pujols behind Trout, and Trout doesn't see a strike while a mans on base. But you have to protect Pujols too.

That said, Aybar is protected by Trout. And is lousy. So yeah, it's rearranging deck chairs on the titanic but I'd be ok with Johnny G getting a crack there.

Also didn't Aybar actually bat cleanup at some point this year, or am I getting a contact high again?

[Stradling]

Strad, I'm with you on the lineup bitching (as much as I take part in it as well). And game to game, it's pretty silly to complain about where guys hit. But I think it's fair to point out trends and question why steps aren't being taken to address those trends.

You mention the team having 4 good hitters, and I agree - so wouldn't it make sense to bat those 4 guys at the top, so that they get the most ABs? And no, Aybar isn't one of those 4 guys, nor has he ever been.

And do you really think Kole is a better option for clean-up than Pujols? Isn't it fair at this point to say that it doesn't seem like the clean-up spot suits Calhoun?

(Not picking a fight, just asking your honest opinion.)

I do think Calhoun when he is right is better than Albert, because it just seems like he sees more pitches, uses more of the field, and I also like the lefty batting with Trout on first. Granted that only happens if Albert doesn't do his job. My perfect line up with our current team would go something like this. Trout, Calhoun, Albert, Freese, Aybar, Iannetta, Joyce, Perez and Givotella. This is with Iannetta being our DH. I have always liked a speedy guy batting 9th. I also wouldn't have a problem if we were to put Giovatella leadoff, and move Aybar to 9th, and move 6-8 up one spot. None of this really matters if the guys are all having their career worst seasons.

[nando714]

For shits and gigs

[Stradling]

It gives the lineup a bit more balance, instead of being so top heavy. I do also feel that Calhoun gets better pitches to hit batting in front of Trout. As for Pujols, it's possible that having an actual good lefty hitting behind him has given him better pitches to hit, hence his recent hot streak. That said, Freese is currently hitting just as well as Calhoun (minus the average) and people don't seem to realize that. I think he can provide the same protection Calhoun has provided.

But there's really no right answer here. Sosh has a crappy lineup to work with.

Right on, I can see all of that, and don't disagree. It is pretty easy to not be too passionate about the little things in a line up that is struggling.

[Angel Oracle]

Thank a lot Hackilton for sucking at baseball and at being true to your teammates!

One guy, but if he was anything like the guy in 2010-2011, the lineup is that much better.

[Angel Oracle]

Prediction: Joyce 0-4, 2 Ks

[tdawg87]

Now this thread can get started!

[WallyWorld]

I do think Calhoun when he is right is better than Albert, because it just seems like he sees more pitches, uses more of the field, and I also like the lefty batting with Trout on first. Granted that only happens if Albert doesn't do his job. My perfect line up with our current team would go something like this. Trout, Calhoun, Albert, Freese, Aybar, Iannetta, Joyce, Perez and Givotella. This is with Iannetta being our DH. I have always liked a speedy guy batting 9th. I also wouldn't have a problem if we were to put Giovatella leadoff, and move Aybar to 9th, and move 6-8 up one spot. None of this really matters if the guys are all having their career worst seasons.

 

I wouldn't mind giving that lineup its day in court. I've always preferred Trout at leadoff as well, and on a team with a more talented roster, he might be.

 

I hear you on it all being a moot point if everyone is struggling, but there's some chicken or egg going on there. If you take a guy who has always done pretty well in a certain spot (Calhoun at leadoff) and put him in a different spot, where he struggles, then you might be partly causing those struggles. Same logic applies to Aybar at leadoff - he's NEVER hit well in that spot.

[Stradling]

Prediction: Joyce 0-4, 2 Ks

Prediction: Hamilton 0-0 2 LD (lap dances) 3 LoC (lines of coke)

[Chris]

how about something like this:

 

2B Johnny G ®

CF Mike Trout ®

LF Kole Calhoun (L)

1B Albert Pujols ®

DH David Freese ®

LF Matt Joyce (L)

C Perez/Iannetta ®

3B Kubitza (L)

SS Aybar (S)

[Troll Daddy]

For shits and gigs

You want answers ... I'll give you answers

The early returns: not great, not bad.

In 18 games at leadoff, Aybar is hitting .247 with a .391 OBP, 11 runs, 13 strikeouts and four walks. Those numbers were better before a two-for-15 skid in his last four games.

Aybar's career .273 batting average and .312 OBP in the leadoff spot is on par with his overall .277 average and .317 OBP, an indication he feels more comfortable there.

"I don't think you ever ask a player to do something he's either not comfortable with or not suited for," Scioscia said. "With Erick, although he's not going to see as many pitches as a traditional leadoff guy, he's athletic, he's going to get in scoring position a lot.

"His on-base is not going to be off the charts, but it's not going to be awful, either. He's going to get on base enough, get in scoring position enough to where he can still be effective as a table-setter."

It's tough to draw walks batting in front of one of baseball's best all-around hitters, Mike Trout, because opposing pitchers don't want to put anyone on base ahead of Trout.

"I think you see more strikes, but not necessarily more fastballs," Scioscia said. "You're not going to see guys try to paint [the corners] on that 2-and-2 count. Guys are going to come after you. … Guys who hit in front of Albert, in front of a guy like Mike, you're most likely going to have to hit your way on."

Aybar is not a slugger opponents fear, and he has noticed a lot more pitches in the strike zone lately.

"It's not just good — it's very, very, very good," Aybar said of hitting in front of Trout. "It's a lot different having him behind you. He's one of best hitters in baseball. They'd rather face Aybar. They don't want to face Trout, because he can go deep to any field."

LAtimes.com

Edited June 9, 2015 by Troll Daddy

[tomsred]

Kubitzu isn't ready to play 3rd yet, and he's in Salt Lake where he belongs.  We need a real DH, and a real left fielder.   Right now there aren't any in this entire organization.