Nuke this team now

[Jobu]

Cron never had much of a career to kill. It was DOA.

[Angel Oracle]

Left handed hitting development needs to improve drastically in this org.

How is Kubitza progressing?

[ettin]

Left handed hitting development needs to improve drastically in this org.

How is Kubitza progressing?

It's funny you mention Kubitza, AO, because as part of a trade target series that should be coming out soon I will end up discussing him in the last entry of the series (a wrap up).

Can you believe that Kubitza has actually hit lefties better in his Minor League career? That kind of caught me by surprise.

Since 2011, Kubitza has a slash line of .287/.396/.456 vs. LHP and .270/.373/.435 vs. RHP! The more you know I guess (me included)!

The good news is that I could easily see Kyle in the 2-hole in the near future. Perhaps even this year depending on what happens at the trade deadline.

Edited June 8, 2015 by ettin

[Angel Oracle]

Very interesting, but it could portend well for his future, being able to hit vs. lefties.

Hate to see him traded away, for sure.

If that happens, who the heck plays 3B in 2016?

Freese should NOT be signed to a new deal, not with the declining OBP and iffy defense.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[ScottT]

Someone needs to let Scioscia know Kubitza can hit LHP.

[ettin]

Oh sorry AO I should have indicated that Freese might possibly be traded at the deadline and Kubitza brought up. Kyle has a league leading 21 doubles in the Minors as of yesterday so he's pretty much ready. However I think the Angels are more likely to keep Freese even if they move him to DH/3B simply because there is little depth at 3B beyond Freese, Kubitza and Green.

Kubitza is our long term 3B in all likelihood. He'll never be a big power threat (No more than 15-20 HR's tops) but he is a gap to gap hitter who will walk a lot and strike out a lot. He has a good line drive approach at the plate.

[Angel Oracle]

Line drive approach and plate approach?    From a lefty hitting prospect actually?

Yes! Yes! Yes!

[Puget Sound Angel]

I don't believe the purpose of firing players is for punishment. You do it when you have someone who can replace them and perform better.

Oh God, we're screwed.

[Docwaukee]

while I mentioned that I didn't really care what the team did at this point, the setup is there for them to do absolutely nothing.  To me, the worst case scenario.  

 

The are looking horrible and even after a 5 game losing streak, they are 2.5gb of the second wild card.  As long as there is a chance at the playoffs, I have serious doubts about whether they'd trade from their major league roster.  And with the WC game being a potential one and done situation, they aren't likely to improve the team either.  Meaning that at seasons end, anyone with slight value will walk.  

 

Frankly, I hope they move more in one direction or the other as opposed to the current death by a thousand razor blades thing they are doing right now.  

[ukyah]

i worry about kubitza's long swing. i'd like to be wrong, but i am not a big believer.

[Docwaukee]

Kubitza is interesting to me in that it's the first real foray of our minor league evaluators in obtaining an upper minors position player that is supposed to be of decent value/status.  I don't count Green, or Rutledge as to me they were afterthoughts.  (and scotty - don't you start with me on Jairo Diaz thing.  the dude is sucking balls in AAA right now and had one good half season last year).  

[19HALO71]

2.5 out of the WC. We're fine!!

[Guest]

Bring in Kubitza and Tropeano. the old farts on this team aren't cutting it.

[Angel Oracle]

Thing is, we won't continue to see the majority of contenders floundering. 

Law of averages dictates some of them making a move up the standings.

 

We sure ain't going anywhere playing 28-29 record baseball the rest of the way.   

[ettin]

@Ettin~

Right now even Jack Howell is looking pretty good....

It's funny you said that because his 1987 season slash line is probably close to what we'll see in Kubitza. Maybe a little more K's with more BB's and maybe just a little less HR's with a little more 2B's.

[robblin17]

while I mentioned that I didn't really care what the team did at this point, the setup is there for them to do absolutely nothing.  To me, the worst case scenario.  

 

The are looking horrible and even after a 5 game losing streak, they are 2.5gb of the second wild card.  As long as there is a chance at the playoffs, I have serious doubts about whether they'd trade from their major league roster.  And with the WC game being a potential one and done situation, they aren't likely to improve the team either.  Meaning that at seasons end, anyone with slight value will walk.  

 

Frankly, I hope they move more in one direction or the other as opposed to the current death by a thousand razor blades thing they are doing right now.  

 

I would love to trade Freese, Iannetta, Wilson, and Joyce at the deadline for whatever someone is willing to give us. Iannetta and Joyce will not have much value but try and find a prospect that other teams do not value as much, like a Perez in the Conger deal. Trade Freese and Wilson for the best available deal to bring in a LH bat. Bring up Kubitza and Bandy. Let Perez get a majority of the work.

 

Then, trade Cron for a prospect except one that is built completely different. Look for a team that thinks Cron can be a power answer and get a speedy, high OBP/contact, outfielder type prospect. Cron and Pujols just cannot coexist on the Angels.

 

I would also be open to moving Shoemaker and Weaver if the right deal presents itself. Then roll with:

 

Calhoun RF

Kubitza 3B

Trout CF

Pujols 1B

LH Bat DH

Perez C

Giavotella 2B

Aybar SS

Acquired LF

 

Richards

Heaney

Tropeano

Weaver/Wilson/Shoemaker (Assuming one or two of these guys does not get traded)

Santiago

 

You will also probably have restocked a bit on the farm. I am not saying with anything amazing.

Edited June 8, 2015 by robblin17

[beatlesrule]

This thread is going places.

[ten ocho recon scout]

IMO, you make a move to fill a hole, or to dump salary. Personally, and ive been saying this for late april, this team isnt likely to win anything special this year, likely just average. Thats not really a big deal (IMO) so long as theres a long term plan.

But trading away guys like iannetta (which i am fine with) wont 'help' anything unless we have something better. And we dont..

If we wanna bring up kubitza to see what he can bring, cool. But from what ive read he needs help on defense. Let him do that downstairs.

Trouts not going anywhere. The core of our future pitching isnt either. The only concern is wasting street/smith, which i admit sucks. But unless a MOTO bat is attainable, there really isnt a point. Id feel totally different if pujols was still at his peak, but he isnt.

Again, im crossing fingers for upton in the offseason, but unfortunately i dont have high hopes. Not sure of top many other impact bats who might become available.

In terms of cj for ethier...i could be wrong, but ethier seems a whole lot like joyce. Last i checked (not recently) ethier struggled against lefties and was more of a platoon bat at this point. I just think coming here wed either see the same results as joyce, or even if he put up normal joyce numbers, wouldnt make a huge difference. If it happens id be good with it, just dont see it making much difference.

[ettin]

Generally I agree with you Ten but the thing about Freese is that he has consistently been one of the worst defenders at 3B this year. If Kubitza can come up into a full time role or platoon role and move Freese to DH on occasion I think getting Kyle rep's now would be great. If he stumbles badly then send him down and move Freese back?

 

Also I've written some trade target articles that should hit the website soon. I think there are some options out there (some better than others) that are attainable (some more expensive than others).

[ten ocho recon scout]

Im not against that ettin, im just weighing out if its better for kubitzas long term growth to come up or work on things below. I really dont know. I dont know how much work he needs, nor if its a benefit to stay below.

I just dont think moves like that are gonna help much. (I could be totally wrong). But like IP has pointed out perfectly the problem with this offense is that too many guys are having career worst seasons. No moves are gonna impact much unless the overall cast of characters gets their shit together.

So to me, it comes down to how probable it is that guys like joyce and freese get back to their norms. If its likely (and i cant answer that, thats a question for smarter people), then yeah, tinker with it until it works. If not, its a sunk year, play it smart are start eyeballing the future and what you need to succeed.

[JarsOfClay]

I'm not really a Scioscia fan but bringing in a new manager will not make Pujols 10 years younger or make Freese, Cron, Joyce, Ianetta good at baseball.

 

jesus, the goal of a new manager is to see if he would be a good fit and how the players react towards him, and to an extent - team performance.  Were not saying fire scioscia, so the new manager can transform our current roster into the '27 yankees...where do you guys get this stuff?

[ettin]

Im not against that ettin, im just weighing out if its better for kubitzas long term growth to come up or work on things below. I really dont know. I dont know how much work he needs, nor if its a benefit to stay below.

I just dont think moves like that are gonna help much. (I could be totally wrong). But like IP has pointed out perfectly the problem with this offense is that too many guys are having career worst seasons. No moves are gonna impact much unless the overall cast of characters gets their shit together.

So to me, it comes down to how probable it is that guys like joyce and freese get back to their norms. If its likely (and i cant answer that, thats a question for smarter people), then yeah, tinker with it until it works. If not, its a sunk year, play it smart are start eyeballing the future and what you need to succeed.

I'm not 100% sure myself about Kubitza being ready. On one hand he's producing at the plate but the one thing that scares me a little is his strikeout totals. Beyond that I think he'll develop into a capable 3B. I think, depending on what the team does at the trade deadline, that there is a reasonably good chance he's up by the end of July.

[HeavenlyHalos]

I don't really have anything to add, but I say this a lot during games.

 

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

My positivity spell is waning big time. Appears I was right and the Dipoto bomb wasn't big enough.

[QuinlansMinion]

So basicall fire everybody and anybody. As much as I dont disagree with you, it wont happen.

Dipoto or Scioscia needs to go however. Dipoto has put together the wrong ball club for a Mike Scioscia team, and they clearly dont work well together.