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IGNORED

Nuke this team now


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I also think it's easy to say fire Sosh, but who do you bring in?

No one ever seems to suggest that part of the equation.

This is a ridiculous question. You are implying that there have been no competent MLB managers available for hire within the last five years. Many new managers have been hired by MLB teams, and several managers have changed teams in that time.

It's unreasonable to expect fans to have specific knowledge about the resumes of potential managerial candidates that happen to be sitting on Dipoto's desk. However, the fact I or any other fan may not be able to recite a candidate off the top of my head does not mean none exist. 

Edited by ScottLux
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Yep. The job of a manager isn't to polish a turd, it's to work with the talent you've got and make it the best team it can be. The evidence is coming more compelling by the day that this team is the metophorical turd that cannot be polished. It's not impossible that changes in the latter part of the season so far, but when you've got a collection of hitters that arren't hitting what the hell can a manager do about it?

The turd your talking about had the best record in baseball last season. What's changed?

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The turd your talking about had the best record in baseball last season. What's changed?

  1. Sophomore slumps for Richards* and Shoemaker.
  2. Kendrick traded for Heaney (future prospect). 
  3. Jeppy traded for Joyce.
  4. Every team in the division except Oakland has improved.

*2014 It was Richards' first year as starter, rather than reliever

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The importance of a manager is overblown anyway. Nobody is going to win with this team if the offense doesn't improve. 

 

This is true to a point, but I believe that there are managers who get the most out of their teams, and managers whose teams habitually underachieve. In the former category I would put Bruce Bochy, Buck Showalter and Joe Maddon, for starters. It's hard to judge Maddon on current results since it's his first year with a new club, but his Rays teams were almost always in contention. Showalter's arrival in Baltimore had an immediate impact on the Orioles, and Bochy has won three World Series in San Francisco. He almost always seems to make the right decision, his guys don't quit and they play hard for him. Clint Hurdle seems to be a good fit for the Pirates. On the other side, Don Mattingly doesn't really seem to inspire his guys, and with the kind of payroll he has you would think that they could finish ahead of San Francisco once in a while. I don't believe that Joe Girardi is all that special either.

 

Scioscia I'm on the fence about. On the one hand, he seems to be one of the best in baseball at bringing his teams through periods when key players are out, and he is a master at working them back into the lineup, determining just the right mix of playing time and rest as they reacclimate to becoming everyday players. Then there is his dogged devotion to veterans whether they produce or not, and at times it seems like the less they perform, the more he digs in on them. He seems especially tough on catchers, and for a former catcher his management of the pitching staff leaves you scratching your head at times.

Edited by Vegas Halo Fan
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One of them was supposed to be Grichuk who has given away to St. Louis

 

To be fair about that trade you have to put it into the perspective at that time.  We had no third baseman who was near ML ready (we got Freese).  Our bullpen needed help, lots of it (we got Salas).  Our outfield had Trout, Calhoun and Hamilton.  Grichuk was not looking immediately ready, and Bourjos was not going to play center (due to Trout), his position of strength because of his defense.  It was logical to make that trade at that time.  I'm sure eventually the front office knew Freese and Salas would decline (due to age if nothing else), but it bought them time to develop other players.  Unfortunately those other players haven't shown up yet, but there is still hope with Kubitza, and maybe Bedrosian.

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This is a ridiculous question. You are implying that there have been no competent MLB managers available for hire within the last five years. Many new managers have been hired by MLB teams, and several managers have changed teams in that time.

It's unreasonable to expect fans to have specific knowledge about the resumes of potential managerial candidates that happen to be sitting on Dipoto's desk. However, the fact I or any other fan may not be able to recite a candidate off the top of my head does not mean none exist.

Weird, this board plays owner, GM, and coach daily. You'd think people here would have an opinion.

You and some others are taking the question too literal.

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I'm not really a Scioscia fan but bringing in a new manager will not make Pujols 10 years younger or make Freese, Cron, Joyce, Ianetta good at baseball.

 

True, however, new leadership might get rid of the stupid contact play, the silly catcher platoon, guaranteed lineup spot for Joyce, and tip-the-cap clubhouse mentality. 

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It's not panic.  It's boredom.  

 

I am practically in tears when I watch a game.  A couple of Angel hrs.  4-5 runs max.  Most starters with the capacity to blow up at any time.  2/3rds of the pen is uranium.  

 

Not sure I care what direction they go at this point, but watching Joyce, Iannetta, Freese and Cron come to the plate is like ground hog day for how to take a shit at the plate.  

 

The interesting part to me is that it's not like we need 3 more Mike Trout's to make this a good team.  We need the half a dozen guys in the lineup who are supposed to be average or slightly above to be just that.  Not a huge stretch.  They pulled Giavotella off the scrap heap to replace Howie and even though he hasn't been as good, he's been decent enough to where it wouldn't be that noticeable if everyone else is doing their job within reason.  

 

Dipoto must wake up and just shake his head everyday wondering when someone will provide some level of consistency for this team.  

 

He inherits a team with a pitching staff that is supposed to vie for being one of the best in the league and within a couple of weeks of the start of the season, it all falls apart and he has to rebuild it on the fly. In the mater of one and a half seasons, he is somehow able to turn the entire staff and bullpen over and put together a 98 win team.  All the while creating pitching depth in the farm system.  Lo and behold, he trades one guy and the entire offense goes to shit.  Half of the team decides to take the year off and he's back to square one yet on the offensive side.  Underperforming players and a huge farm void in that area.  

 

I agree that Dipoto and Scioscia are the best match.  Philosophically they don't seem to jive all that well, but this is on the players.  I disagree with the notion that this team lacks talent.  I didn't see anything last year so extraordinary from any particular player that the level of regression would indicate a drop of 15 wins from the previous season.  7-10 maybe as 98 wins from any team is a bit of an outlier. 

 

This team isn't bad.  It's just disappointing.  It says something that 1/3rd of the lineup can be hitting below .200 and we are still around .500.  

 

I am not sure of my point just like this team seems unsure of what they are supposed to be.  I am not confident that any sort of managerial change would make Matt Joyce not swing at slow breaking ball in off the plate over and over and over.  

 

They are gonna have decide whether what they have can be good enough and if one additional player will cause some sort of response that knocks half these guys heads out of their asses.  

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Yep. The job of a manager isn't to polish a turd, it's to work with the talent you've got and make it the best team it can be. The evidence is coming more compelling by the day that this team is the metophorical turd that cannot be polished. It's not impossible that changes in the latter part of the season so far, but when you've got a collection of hitters that aren't hitting what the hell can a manager do about it?

 

Mate, it all depends on the type of turd. We need some visual aids.

 

bristol-stool-scale.jpg

 

I think we can rule out Type 7; the Angels don't have the runs.

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I agree that Dipoto and Scioscia are the best match.  Philosophically they don't seem to jive all that well, but this is on the players.  I disagree with the notion that this team lacks talent.  I didn't see anything last year so extraordinary from any particular player that the level of regression would indicate a drop of 15 wins from the previous season.  7-10 maybe as 98 wins from any team is a bit of an outlier. 

 

Meh -- I don't think they are as bad as they have played but the talent is questionable, particularly the bench.  

 

I think the lineup minus Kendrick has been exposed.  For all the hate Howie continually got on this board he was the epitome of consistency and this team is lacking that sure thing behind the big 3.  Ianetta, Joyce and Freese (who has carried his weight) are all mediocre to low average hitters that are supposed to make up for it with the ability to get on base and show power,and all of them have failed to get on base.

 

.318 - .274 - Ianetta

.328 - .260 - Joyce

.321 - .296 - Freese

 

That first number is their career worst OBP in any full season the second number is what they have actually done this season.   When you look at it like that, it really stands out how badly they have peformed..  It's not that they are failing to live up their career averages, they have failed to deliver at even their career worst numbers.   No GM in baseball could see that sort of failure coming from three established hitters.

 

Throw in Cron's implosion, a black hole bench beyond Perez, and BOOM -- we have this mess on our hands.

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Meh -- I don't think they are as bad as they have played but the talent is questionable, particularly the bench.

I think the lineup minus Kendrick has been exposed. For all the hate Howie continually got on this board he was the epitome of consistency and this team is lacking that sure thing behind the big 3. Ianetta, Joyce and Freese (who has carried his weight) are all mediocre to low average hitters that are supposed to make up for it with the ability to get on base and show power,and all of them have failed to get on base.

.318 - .274 - Ianetta

.328 - .260 - Joyce

.321 - .296 - Freese

That first number is their career worst OBP in any full season the second number is what they have actually done this season. When you look at it like that, it really stands out how badly they have peformed.. It's not that they are failing to live up their career averages, they have failed to deliver at even their career worst numbers. No GM in baseball could see that sort of failure coming from three established hitters.

Throw in Cron's implosion, a black hole bench beyond Perez, and BOOM -- we have this mess on our hands.

Interesting numbers, and they don't even include Cron. When that much of your lineup is taking a massive dump...

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We've had 12+ losing seasons in a row?! Oh no, we've become the Pirates!!!

Worse. The Pirates don't have any money. Arte has been spending hand over fist and it's underachieving. If we were small market ball, the expectations would be lower. Aside from the Dodgers, and we had them outspent for a while, we write big checks like the other big boys.

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Worse. The Pirates don't have any money. Arte has been spending hand over fist and it's underachieving. If we were small market ball, the expectations would be lower. Aside from the Dodgers, and we had them outspent for a while, we write big checks like the other big boys.

So, I guess the solution is for him to stop spending money then since that is clearly not working.  We can be just like the Jackie Autrey teams of the 90's that had no possibility of doing anything and just lower our expectations since we're just a "small market team"...back in the good 'ol days when the games were broadcast in black and white and they had "California" in front of their names (sob).

Edited by mulwin444
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So, I guess the solution is for him to stop spending money then since that is clearly not working.  We can be just like the Jackie Autrey teams of the 90's that had no possibility of doing anything and just lower our expectations since we're just a "small market team"...back in the good 'ol days when the games were broadcast in black and white and they had "California" in front of their names (sob).

Spending money is essential.

Wasting it on past their prime superstars like Hamilton is another story. 

Beltre and his stellar defense and re-emerging offense in 2010 represented the perfect contract opp for the Halos, but nooooooo.   

They decide to trade for a declining Mr. Pop-Up. 

 

Best way to build and keep a strong franchise long term is a balance between solid scouting/development/drafting and strategic FA signings and trades to build a balanced roster in the long run between pitching, clutch hitting, and solid defense.   (See the Cardinals.)

JeDi has essentially completed the pitching phase of that, but has a waaaaays to go with offense and having enough team speed and defense.

Edited by Angel Oracle
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No matter what you think, the players have to help themselves right now. Alden Gonzalez tweeted this out this morning: "Nine weeks in, and 23 of 30 teams within 5 games of a playoff spot (not including Mariners, 5 1/2 GB of 2nd WC). Trades not easy to come by." The team is in control of its own destiny. If we can stay above .500 until the end of this month I believe Jerry will pull off a trade for one or more left-handed bats to bolster the offense.

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Personally, I'm not going to be too hard on either Scioscia or Dipoto here.

 

The fact is, NOT ONE of us could've predicted career killing years out of Iannetta, Joyce, Cron.  We're also seeing that Pujols and Freese have turned into low BA, low OBP players with power.  Basically Mark Trumbo.

 

If you're going off previous years and typical performances from a specific age, the team Dipoto built should've still won the AL West and had a comfortable division lead.  I really can't blame him here.  

 

As for Scioscia, this is largely the same team as last year, and he led that team to a 98 win season.  

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