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Confederate flag burning set for Monday

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That flag is as much a part of their heritage as it is the civil war vets. Burn away as far as I'm concerned. I do, however, agree that Memorial Day isn't the best day to do it.

If your flag-burning isn't garnering enough attention, kick it up a notch by doing it on a national holiday.

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I hold grudges.

I remember when my family first moved to California in 1975. We went to a Jack in the Box and they wouldn't take our traveler's checks. My mom never went to a JIB again. I thought she could hold a grudge but apparently she has nothing on you.

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that's a very interesting analysis, cezero. was this done on your own or is it from another source? i'm asking because i've never really heard it framed this way and am wondering if there are others who see the racial issues in this country the same way you described.

Edited by Tank
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John Wilkes Booth really screwed things up when he killed Lincoln. I'm not saying things would have been perfect but Lincoln's goal of peace, reconciliation, and malice toward none would have done everyone a whole lot better than what the Johnson administration did along with the Radical Republicans.

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We're still in reconstruction.

Here's the progression (heavily condensed. PM me if you want clarification):

1) The south loses: Slavery is no longer an institution in the US. Reconstruction begins.

2) Blacks are free. (13th Amendment), nothing to do with the Emancipation Proclamation that Lincoln stated before the War even ended. Jim Crow ensures that freed blacks are not treated as human beings equal to whites.

3) Blacks are given citizenship....ostensibly. (14th Amendment. Jim Crow systematically destroys it in the South....as well as in southern portions of the Midwest, which really acted like separate states, and still do to this day).

4) Blacks, and other minorities, are given the right to vote. (15th Amendment...again, ostensibly, since certain political parties still find ways to keep giant portions of brown people from voting to this day...see Ronald Reagan and GWB's "southern strategy").

5) The first and second generation of black leaders emerge (Douglas, and Dubois after, etc....a great start to civil rights arguments, but largely ignored/scoffed by white America)

6) Emmett Till awakens a huge number of Americans to the hideous reality of lynchings that have gone on for over a hundred years. Rosa Parks is in there, too, though her role is safe and sanitary, and inflated decades after the fact.

6) Revolutionaries like MLK/X/RFK/JFK (to a lesser extent) start making the argument about class rather than color, and it goes huge. All are executed within a few years of each other.

7) 50 years of continuing reconstruction...achingly slow, largely leaderless, and with outbursts every decade or so.

Reconstruction was an idea that came about in the 1860s, and is ongoing.

We'll get there someday, maybe. Our country is so sick with racism, it'll be well beyond my generation, unfortunately.


8) Gansta Rap and Hip Hop are introduced and we reset the clocks 50 years back.


Doesn't look like we are making any headway on either side.

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I'm not saying it would have been perfect cez and I agree the racism in the north as well as the south would have hindered progress. However Lincoln's unwillingness to condemn the south and show compassion would have helped the healing process a lot more and potentially sped the process up a lot faster.

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We also can't forget that the Emancipation Proclamation was instrumental in ensuring that the French and especially the English would stay neutral. The English, especially, were anti-slavery, having outlawed it in the 1830s. They were willing to side with the Confederacy because of political/economic reasons, and because they felt that the North was only fighting to preserve the Union (which had some truth to it).


If the English & French had intervened on the side of the Confederacy, there would likely still be a Confederacy and the history of the world would look a lot different.

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