The Angels Future LF is....

[nikkachez]

A bunch of Angels trade options in here

http://m.ocregister.com/articles/angels-661380-year-dipoto.html

I'd like Revere more if they added another complementary piece that could bring some thump to the lineup and play multiple positions. Revere adds a lot of speed and defense the Angels could really use, just needs another bat to really complete the lineup. Heck Revere could, at the least, replace Cowgill as the 4th oufielder if he continues to struggle. A pen arm might be needed as well but I'm hoping Bedrosian can get another shot soon. 

[Docwaukee]

I think in the story I wrote the reasons Cargo doesn't make sense. I included him more to shoot it down that anything, since he's a name people have suggested.

Yep.  and I agree.  

 

If we make a move that involves significant pitching prospects on our end it will be for a player that is club controlled or a sure bet.   

[Second Base]

Stellar work Fletch. I'm particularly impressed with the argument for Lind. I know I don't want the Angels to trade for him, but you made it sound like such a great idea I couldn't help but dream. I also liked that you brought up the idea of Kubitza, which I feel hasn't been explored as much as it should.

From a personal standpoint, I'd like to see Dipoto go bold here on this one. Promote Kubitza to split 3B/DH duties with Freese and then trade for Ben Revere. Despite a poor OBP, because of his average, speed and left handedness, it'd likely result in a lineup change, but for the better.

Perhaps Revere (L), Trout ®, Calhoun (L), Pujols ®, Freese ®, Aybar (S), Perez ®, Kubitza (L), Giavotella ®.

It gives the Angels the chance at 4 LHB against RHP and 6 RHB against LHP. It'd even make for a nice tryout of sorts for Kubitza. That way he has a better idea what to expect next year when he takes over 3B.

Edited May 12, 2015 by ScottyA_MWAH

[Second Base]

I also feel it would be fascinating to see the package Revere would demand. He has 3+ years of team control, is in his physical prime, is making a reasonable salary and is coming from a team in need of both hitting and pitching.

We'd likely see a deal that blows the Street one out of the water. Something like Yarbrough, Heaney, Rhoades, Green and Alcantara. Could be a spectacular overpay.

[Tyler]

For Revere? No way. He's almost a non-tender candidate...

[Second Base]

Are you sure? Doesn't seem like they'd nontender a .289 hitter at age 27 that could reasonably swipe 40 bags a year and play some solid D.

[Tyler]

Don't really see a less than .700 OPS OF worth another raise from the 4.1 mill he's making this year. 

[Second Base]

Should be interesting to see how he's vaulted then. As the LF version of Chone Figgins I envisioned or more of a poor-starter type.

[tshurtz]

Are you sure? Doesn't seem like they'd nontender a .289 hitter at age 27 that could reasonably swipe 40 bags a year and play some solid D.

Player A:

2013-2015

270 G, .684 OPS, 2.0 fWAR, $6,565,000 (cost of the player over those years)

 

Player B:

2013-2015

205 G, .646 OPS, 3.0 fWAR, $1,994,520 (cost of the player over those years)

Player A was acquired by trade, netting a #4/5 starter and a top 55 prospect 

Player B was acquired by trade, netting a org-filler OF prospect 

Going forward, Player A will be a free agent after the 2017 season

Going forward, Player B will be a free agent after the 2018 season

Player A is currently 27

Player B is currently 28 

Would you be willing to give up Heaney, Green, Alcantara, Yarbrough, and Rhoades for either of these players? 

Player A is Ben Revere

Player B is Collin Cowgill 

Have at it. 

[Troll Daddy]

Scott Van Skyke? Maybe not the future but a good addition with some pop. Dodgers are stacked with outfielders ... when Puig returns they might be open to trade one.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Troll Daddy

[Angel Oracle]

As a platoon guy, most definitely yes

[Second Base]

I guess it's ok to ignore batting average, OBP, runs and stolen bases if it fits you argument.

[Stradling]

Scotty, you have to admit in order to give up that kind of package you need a return far greater than Ben Revere. I wouldn't give up Heaney straight up for a light hitting outfielder. Who knows maybe I am undervaluing him.

[Inside Pitch]

Are you sure? Doesn't seem like they'd nontender a .289 hitter at age 27 that could reasonably swipe 40 bags a year and play some solid D.

It's .289 but its an empty batting average.  

 

Revere doesn't get on base via walk and his defense really isn't all that great, both of which are negatives for someone who's lack of power means speed and defense have to make up the difference.   Defensive metrics may be flawed but looking at his numbers he's been a poor defensive player based on his dWar and DRS.    Consider this, Matt Joyce has a career DRS of -7., Revere comes in at -16.   Looking strictly at their time in LF, Joyce has managed a career DRS of 1, Revere, -1.   

 

Basically, he's a really good pinch runner.

[Inside Pitch]

I guess it's ok to ignore batting average, OBP, runs and stolen bases if it fits you argument.

 

Wait, are you arguing that Revere is good at OBP or scoring runs?

 

Revere's been either a number one or two hitter for most of his career and never managed to score more than 71 runs in any one season.   His career OBP is .323, the MLB average this season is .325, last year it was .326, the year before that it was .328.   You could argue those numbers put him at about average but, his career SLG is .340....  The MLB average SLG% for leadoff hitters the last three years; .389, .391, and .403.   He's giving up 40-50 points of OPS at his primary spot in the order.  That's not bueno.

 

I'm not saying Revere is a bad player, he just isn't a particularly good one.  The batting average is nice and he can run, IMO he's definitely a good guy to hit 9th but not seeing someone worth really giving up anything other than a spare part for.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Second Base]

Scotty, you have to admit in order to give up that kind of package you need a return far greater than Ben Revere. I wouldn't give up Heaney straight up for a light hitting outfielder. Who knows maybe I am undervaluing him.

 

No I think I was overvaluing, but at the same time would disagree that Ben Revere would simply be a really good pinch runner.  The empty batting average part, I get.  But I think his value lies in his ability to into scoring position.  I think we could all agree, a fast runner getting into scoring position for Trout or Calhoun is a really good thing.  The other part I'm not sold on is his poor defense.  These are the same metrics that tell us Trout is a poor defender in centerfield and personally, I find that to be utter garbage.

 

I've watched enough CF to know Trout's a hell of a lot bette than Ellsbury and Jones who have been winning Gold Gloves.  The only CF's out there that I've seen that I believe to be on par with Trout out there or even better, are Peter Bourjos and Lorenzo Cain.  Whatever it is they're doing to quantify defense, just doesn't suit me.  

 

I've watched Ben Revere.  Not the best routes but not the worst.  More than enough range and athletic ability to make up that ground.  He's a smart, instinctual defender and his arm is decent for a LF, though I believe it to be less than average for a CF or RF.  All in all, I'd say he's a decent defender to even a good defender. 

 

But in all, I think Revere is a heck of a lot better than what we have right now.  Having said that, Scott Van Slyke....now that'd be a guy I'd like to see in a full-time role. 

[Inside Pitch]

No I think I was overvaluing, but at the same time would disagree that Ben Revere would simply be a really good pinch runner.  The empty batting average part, I get.  But I think his value lies in his ability to into scoring position.  I think we could all agree, a fast runner getting into scoring position for Trout or Calhoun is a really good thing.  The other part I'm not sold on is his poor defense.  These are the same metrics that tell us Trout is a poor defender in centerfield and personally, I find that to be utter garbage.

 

You're going for the low hanging fruit by questioning the methodology of defensive metrics.   Like all tools, a person needs to know how to use them and understand how they work.  There are defensive metrics that aren't fond of Trout, there are some that like him.   Trout ranks between 1st and 10th using the main 8 defensive metrics... some value him more, others less so.... but the overall picture is he's been an upper echelon defender this year.   Extend the numbers to cover all Trout's career and you get a similar picture, he may never replicate his one outstanding defensive season but he's a tremendous defender.  Truth is anyone that watches Trout knows he is just as prone to flub an easy play from time to time as he is to make a spectacular one, his numbers are in fact impacted by the large number of chances he gets and those occasional flubs.  

 

Ben Revere is a mediocre OFer, the eye tests says as much and the metrics confirm it.   You like him, that's fine... but he falls short of what his skill set would lead you to expect based on the metrics.  It's highly unlikely a guy posting an OPS+ of 85 in the NL, would see his offense be an asset in the AL and in Angel Stadium.  

 

If you can get him cheap then fine, I just don't view him as someone worth trading anything of real potential value for.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[ettin]

The Angels future LF is.... Marc Krauss (and quite frankly he fits the profile)

Edited May 12, 2015 by ettin

[Hollyw00d]

The Angels future LF is.... Marc Krauss (and quite frankly he fits the profile)

Crappy?

[Second Base]

This is the part where they start toss crap against the wall to see what sticks.  

 

What I can't figure out is exactly what he showed the brass that Grant Green or Kyle Kubitza aren't?

[Angel Oracle]

Sosh's pics that Mathis used to have?

[Hollyw00d]

Can we trade cron for somebody?

Wouldn't mind seeing him gone

[Mark68]

This is the part where they start toss crap against the wall to see what sticks.  

 

What I can't figure out is exactly what he showed the brass that Grant Green or Kyle Kubitza aren't?

The devil you don't know.

 

I guess.

[ettin]

We want to bash Krauss but the guy does have a .278/.376/.478 in the Minors albeit that certainly hasn't translated to the Majors where he has a .200/.274/.341 slash line.

In AAA this year he's running a .281/.405/.458 slash line on a reasonable .316 BABIP with a lot more walks than strikeouts (although that probably won't last).

I like the IDEA of Krauss and hope that it translates into reality finally because if he did fulfill the role it might save us from having to make a trade. Not holding my breath mind you but there is a potential 1 or 2-hole hitter if he can maintain the OBP.

[Cdaniel]

We want to bash Krauss but the guy does have a .278/.376/.478 in the Minors albeit that certainly hasn't translated to the Majors where he has a .200/.274/.341 slash line.In AAA this year he's running a .281/.405/.458 slash line on a reasonable .316 BABIP with a lot more walks than strikeouts (although that probably won't last).I like the IDEA of Krauss and hope that it translates into reality finally because if he did fulfill the role it might save us from having to make a trade. Not holding my breath mind you but there is a potential 1 or 2-hole hitter if he can maintain the OBP.

Krauss a one or two hitter? Isn't he like 280 lbs?