A-Rod ties Willie Mays

[Blarg]

Yankees GM Brian Cashman says that the club isn't paying A-Roid the $6M bonus for passing Mays. The club's stance is that his one-year suspension from baseball voided the bonus provisions in the contract.

 

Brian Cashman: Yankees won't pay A-Rod's $6M bonus for 660th homer

 

Oh boy, I'm sure Soto is on Yankeeswin.com posting an article about how the Yankees are being douches today.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Oh boy, I'm sure Soto is on Yankeeswin.com posting an article about how the Yankees are being douches today.

You'd be wrong. Actually I was watching soccer with Brandon and Lawrence today and not caring whether the Yankees pay Arod. He doesn't care. He showed up for work today after winning that game and went 1-4.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

That's a shame since corked bats actually deadens the ball. He would have hit even more HRs without them. It's also a shame that Mantle died young because of all the cork in his bats.

Actually Mantle died like many will from AW, from a prolonged alcohol career.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

It took me 5 seconds of research to find that the bat wasn't corked. The person that made the claim has retracted their statement.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/mantle-corked-bat-claim-retracted-article-1.1492414

I just remember that article. Would t surprise me. Baseball players aren't saints. They've been cheating since the beginning. They are also abusers, liars, murderers, and gamblers. I have a few books on the subject at home if you'd like to borrow them.

But that doesn't stop my love for the game.

[Blarg]

That has nothing to do with my answer to Strad's question.

 

It's pointing out that during Mantles and Maris' run for Ruth's record there were more quality players in their prime on the field at one time than you would see today.  I don't see 10 hall of fame players on the 2014 top 14 home run list. You probably don't find 10 in the top 50 home run hitters from last season more like 7 and that include Pujols.

 

Unless you think Cris Carter is all that.

[Blarg]

Actually Mantle died like many will from AW, from a prolonged alcohol career.

 

He died of cancer.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

He died of cancer.

Right. And he attirbuted it to a lifelong of alcohol disease. There was a very emotional press conference.

In which he spoke about blowing the gift god gave him.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

It's pointing out that during Mantles and Maris' run for Ruth's record there were more quality players in their prime on the field at one time than you would see today. I don't see 10 hall of fame players on the 2014 top 14 home run list. You probably don't find 10 in the top 50 home run hitters from last season more like 7 and that include Pujols.

Unless you think Cris Carter is all that.

Strad's question was:

In the 60's name a non great hitter to hit a bunch of home runs in a season. Only great players, HOFers or borderline guys hit home runs at a high level then. If you want to see the impact of steroids don't look at Bonds or A-Rod look at Greg Vaughn or Brady Anderson.

He already discussed the HOF players.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

He died of cancer.

Hey Lifetime Jr. Just please stop. Or if you'd like me to stop posting here, that's fine too.

If you don't think Mickey Mantle's cancer wasn't alcohol related, perhaps you should check it again.

Mantle died at 2:10 A.M. Eastern time at Baylor University Medical Center, succumbing to the disease that had spread from his liver to most of his other vital organs. His wife, Merlyn, and son David were at his bedside.

On June 8, Mantle underwent a transplant operation to replace a liver ravaged by cancer, hepatitis and cirrhosis. At the time, doctors said he would die within two to three weeks if he did not receive a new organ. On July 28, he re-entered Baylor Medical Center for treatment of cancerous spots in his right lung. Recently, he had been suffering from anemia, a side effect of aggressive chemotherapy treatment, and had been receiving blood transfusions. On Aug. 9, the hospital said the cancer had spread to his abdomen.

[Blarg]

Strad's question was:

In the 60's name a non great hitter to hit a bunch of home runs in a season. Only great players, HOFers or borderline guys hit home runs at a high level then. If you want to see the impact of steroids don't look at Bonds or A-Rod look at Greg Vaughn or Brady Anderson.

He already discussed the HOF players.

Roger Maris was back to back American League MVP. He was not Brady Anderson or Greg Vaugh.

[ELEVEN]

They seem a little butthurt about this, up here in the SF.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Roger Maris was back to back American League MVP. He was not Brady Anderson or Greg Vaugh.

I guess Reggie should have been MVP in 82 based on those whopping numbers that Maris put up in 60.

[mancini79]

Actually Mantle died like many will from AW, from a prolonged alcohol career.

 

You completely missed my point.

 

Trying to compare roid use to corking bats is ridiculous.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

You completely missed my point.

 

Trying to compare roid use to corking bats is ridiculous.

 

As well as amphetamine use. Amphetamines keep you awake. They don't make you hit 500 foot home runs or hit 70 in a season.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Vegas Halo Fan

[Corona]

Amphetamines can help you focus or get in the zone. Just look at aderrall, it's a huge problem in colleges and Chris Davis got busted for it last year. But now he has a prescription for it so it's okay for him to use, which is bogus IMO.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

There is a little difference between prescription drugs and the ones that players take to stay wired.

[ukyah]

Truly a stand up guy and im happy for him.  Hes a better hitter than Mays, steroids dont help that much and A-Rod was a legend before he even took roids.  And im sure many guys in the old days cheated in different forms also, theres more ways to cheat than just roids and if you really dont believe that then you are misinformed.  

 

Congrats A-Rod.  1st ballot HOF for sure.

 

P.s. Id like to see Mays and Aaron hit against guys like Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Roger Clemens, as well as many other guys who were completely dominant and were on roids themselves.  

 

 

 

you just simply don't get it. arod was taking steroids as an amateur in high school. you've never seen him not on steroids, ever. your opinion on this is so poorly orchestrated it makes the conversation not worth having.

Edited May 3, 2015 by ukyah

[QuinlansMinion]

you just simply don't get it. arod was taking steroids as an amateur in high school. you've never seen him not on steroids, ever. your opinion on this is so poorly orchestrated it makes the conversation not worth having.

That still doesnt change the fact that he was facing roided pitchers.  The playing field was level, like it was for Mays/Aaron.  Therefore, the "I wonder how many home runs so and so would hit if" argument is invalid.

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

You completely missed my point.

Trying to compare roid use to corking bats is ridiculous.

Cheating is cheating. Obviously they aren't the same.

Here's another article that you can digest to rethink that the roiders from today are no different than eras before.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2009/06/20/opinion/20chafets.html?referrer=&_r=0

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

Here's the article and it's written by one of the authors of the books I alluded to earlier.

Let Steroids Into the Hall of Fame

By ZEV CHAFETS

JUNE 19, 2009

WHEN the Baseball Hall of Fame commemorates its 70th anniversary with an exhibition game in Cooperstown, N.Y., on Sunday, five of its members will play on the national field of dreams. At least two of them — Paul Molitor and Ferguson Jenkins — were busted in the 1980s for using cocaine. Molitor later said he was sure he wasn’t the only player on the team using drugs.

Given what we now know about baseball’s drug habit, the remark sounds quaint. This week’s report that Sammy Sosa tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003 is only the latest in a long string of revelations. Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, Mark McGwire — what great players haven’t been linked to drug use?

Since the dawn of baseball, players have used whatever substances they believed would help them perform better, heal faster or relax during a long and stressful season. As far back as 1889, the pitcher Pud Galvin ingested monkey testosterone. During Prohibition, Grover Cleveland Alexander, also a pitcher, calmed his nerves with federally banned alcohol, and no less an expert than Bill Veeck, who owned several major-league teams, said that Alexander was a better pitcher drunk than sober.

In 1961, during his home run race with Roger Maris, Mickey Mantle developed a sudden abscess that kept him on the bench. It came from an infected needle used by Max Jacobson, a quack who injected Mantle with a home-brew containing steroids and speed. In his autobiography, Hank Aaron admitted once taking an amphetamine tablet during a game. The Pirates’ John Milner testified at a drug dealer’s trial that his teammate, Willie Mays, kept “red juice,” a liquid form of speed, in his locker. (Mays denied it.) After he retired, Sandy Koufax admitted the he was often “half high” on the mound from the drugs he took for his ailing left arm.

ALAIN PILON

For decades, baseball beat writers — the Hall of Fame’s designated electoral college — shielded the players from scrutiny. When the Internet (and exposés by two former ballplayers, Jim Bouton and Jose Canseco) allowed fans to see what was really happening, the baseball writers were revealed as dupes or stooges. In a rage, they formed a posse to drive the drug users out of the game.

But today’s superstars have lawyers and a union. They know how to use the news media. And they have plenty of money. The only way to punish them is to deny them a place in Cooperstown. The punishment has already been visited on Mark McGwire, and many more are on deck.

This makes no sense. On any given day, the stands are packed with youngsters on Adderall and Ritalin (stimulants used to treat attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) and college students who use Provigil (an anti-narcolepsy drug) as a study aid. The guy who sings the national anthem has probably taken a beta blocker to calm his stage fright. Like it or not, chemical enhancement is here to stay. And it is as much a part of the national game as $5.50 hot dogs, free agency and Tommy John elbow surgery.

Purists say that steroids alter the game. But since the Hall opened its doors, baseball has never stopped changing. Batters now wear body padding and helmets. The pitcher’s mound has risen and fallen. Bats have more pop. Night games affect visibility. Players stay in shape in the off-season. Expansion has altered the game’s geography. And its demography has changed beyond recognition. Babe Ruth never faced a black pitcher. As Chris Rock put it, Ruth’s record consisted of “714 affirmative-action home runs.” This doesn’t diminish Ruth’s accomplishment, but it puts it into context.

Statistics change, too. In 1908, Ed Walsh pitched 464 innings; in 2008, C. C. Sabathia led the majors with 253. So what? They were both first under the prevailing conditions of the time.

Despite these changes, or because of them, Americans continue to love baseball. Fans will accept anything except the sense that they are being lied to. Chemical enhancement won’t kill the game; it is the cover-up that could be fatal.

Baseball, led by the Hall of Fame, needs to accept this and replace mythology and spin with realism and honesty. If everyone has access to the same drugs and training methods, and the fans are told what these are, then the field is level and fans will be able to interpret what they are seeing on the diamond and in the box scores.

The purists’ last argument is that players’ use of performance-enhancing drugs sets a bad example for young athletes. But baseball players aren’t children; they are adults in a very stressful and competitive profession. If they want to use anabolic steroids, or human growth hormone or bull’s testosterone, it should be up to them. As for children, the government can regulate their use of these substances as they do with tobacco, alcohol and prescription medicine.

The Baseball Hall of Fame, which started as a local tourist attraction and a major-league publicity stunt, has since become a national field of dreams — and now, a battlefield. If it surrenders to the moralists who want to turn back the clock to some imagined golden era, and excommunicates the greatest stars anyone has ever seen, it will suffer the fate of all battlefields located on the wrong side of history. Obscurity.

Zev Chafets is the author of the forthcoming “Cooperstown Confidential: Heroes, Rogues and the Inside Story of the Baseball Hall of Fame.”

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Comparing changes in equipment and mound height to PEDs is one of the most asinine arguments I have ever read. Ditto people comparing taking medications for legitimate physical conditions versus those who use them to artificially bulk up.

 

Whether the author chooses to believe it or not, youth baseball players are influenced by what they see in the majors. A lot of these kids start taking PEDs in high school to improve their chances of being drafted.

[Dick B Back]

Who the hell is Zev Chafets anyway?

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

This was a decent read on the bonus:

http://gran.tl/1GU0zTM

[Vegas Halo Fan]

He lost all credibility with the disgusting manner in which Angels management behaved toward Josh Hamilton just this past month. I read no further. That situation was not about cheating and there are no parallels.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Vegas Halo Fan

[Angel Oracle]

Mays and Ruth, the two greatest MLB players to this point

Aaron is very close. Mantle would have been with them if not for the injuries. Banks was not far off, despite playing for bad teams in Chicago, being the first true slugging shortstop.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Angel Oracle