Cash Flowed to Clinton Foundation as Russians Pressed for Control of Uranium Company

[Glen]

As opposed to the Democrats, Republicans are noted for being open-minded at the ballot box.

[juansavage1]

My goal with that statement isn't to insult anybody- it's to save time. I have a simple test: If the other side did what your side is being accused of and you're defending, would you attack them? If the answer is "yes," then it's a pointless partisan discussion.

 

Are you liberals saying that Valerie Plame was a bigger deal than what Hillary Clinton is doing?

 

It might be true of Republicans, but IMH experience 2015 US liberals only care about a politician's positions when it's the primary and only about defeating the other side in the general. They don't care about lying, stealing, or cheating.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

DC is 75% Dem and about 5% Republican. Do you think the Republicans put the DC mayor in office?

 

Since I obviously have to spell out every detail...

 

Roughly half of the registered voters in DC are black, compared to 13.5 percent nationally. This was a black mayor.

 

Since you want to talk about inflexible loyalties, I point to my home state of Florida. Republican Governor Rick Scott was just elected to a second term. Scott was once Chairman and CEO of Columbia/HCA Healthcare. During his tenure, the company committed massive fraud against the Medicare program. The company was fined $631 million, and many of the corporate officers - Scott skated somehow - were sentenced to federal prison time.

 

In settlements reached in 2000 and 2002, Columbia/HCA plead guilty to 14 felonies and agreed to a $600+ million fine in the largest fraud settlement in U.S. history. Columbia/HCA admitted systematically overcharging the government by claiming marketing costs as reimbursable, by striking illegal deals with home care agencies, and by filing false data about use of hospital space. They also admitted fraudulently billing Medicare and other health programs by inflating the seriousness of diagnoses and to giving doctors partnerships in company hospitals as a kickback for the doctors referring patients to HCA. They filed false cost reports, fraudulently billing Medicare for home health care workers, and paid kickbacks in the sale of home health agencies and to doctors to refer patients. In addition, they gave doctors "loans" never intending to be repaid, free rent, free office furniture, and free drugs from hospital pharmacies.

 

In late 2002, HCA agreed to pay the U.S. government $631 million, plus interest, and pay $17.5 million to state Medicaid agencies, in addition to $250 million paid up to that point to resolve outstanding Medicare expense claims.^[35] In all, civil lawsuits cost HCA more than $2 billion to settle; at the time this was the largest fraud settlement in U.S. history.

 

Yet the man who orchestrated all of this is a two-term governor.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Vegas Halo Fan

[juansavage1]

So what if they're black? They could have voted him out at the primary or voted for a black Republican if they had to vote with their race.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Juan Savage

[Blarg]

Black Republican?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Black Republican?

 

In the District of Columbia. Right.

 

He is trying to make the point that Democrats are inflexible, when Republicans are every bit as much so.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Vegas Halo Fan

[arch stanton]

The point he's making is that Republicans couldn't even beat a crackhead.

[Glen]

My goal with that statement isn't to insult anybody- it's to save time. I have a simple test: If the other side did what your side is being accused of and you're defending, would you attack them? If the answer is "yes," then it's a pointless partisan discussion.

Are you liberals saying that Valerie Plame was a bigger deal than what Hillary Clinton is doing?

It might be true of Republicans, but IMH experience 2015 US liberals only care about a politician's positions when it's the primary and only about defeating the other side in the general. They don't care about lying, stealing, or cheating.

What does your litmus test say about Republicans having no problem with 9/11 or the Iraq war, but still wanting more investigations into Benghazi?

[juansavage1]

I'm not sure if you're aware, but both 9/11 and Iraq were investigated.

[juansavage1]

My point is that for the modern liberal, personal behavior or corruption is a non-issue. It's a waste of time trying to point out that their candidate is a liar or corrupt.

[Glen]

So was Benghazi. More times than 9/11 and Iraq combined and doubled. What does that tell you about Republicans, who still want more Benghazi investigations?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

The invasion of Iraq was based upon questionable and fabricated intelligence. We invaded simply because our president's father said that his one regret in Desert Storm was not removing Saddam Hussein. People within W's own administration said that he came into office looking for excuses to invade Iraq. There was the fruitless attempt to tie Iraq to 9/11 (there was no connection, much to W's chagrin), then there was the "weapons of mass destruction" argument, which no evidence was ever found for.

 

I won't go into all the strategic errors made in the war, but assuming that a Muslim nation would choose American-style democracy once their dictator was removed was one of many miscalculations by Bush 43. There was also his sense that the war would be over in 60-90 days. "Mission accomplished."

[Tank]

It might be true of Republicans, but IMH experience 2015 US liberals only care about a politician's positions when it's the primary and only about defeating the other side in the general. They don't care about lying, stealing, or cheating.

 

this is probably true for partisans on both sides. but yeah, i agree.

[Glen]

Way to hedge your bets, Tank.

[mtangelsfan]

Sorry tank, you MUST pick a side.  Thinking for yourself is not allowed.

[juansavage1]

So, the corruption that really bothers you is Bush's. What a coincidence!

 

Let's test my theory. Do you think Hillary Clinton might be more than a little dishonest/corrupt/shady? I think most people would agree with that. Are you still voting for her? YES!!!! How do you justify this? Because Bush looked for an excuse to invade Iraq. I rest my case.

 

No investigation established that Bush lied or that 9/11 was an inside job, the latter conclusion being beyond the pale, in my opinion.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Juan Savage

[Glen]

So, the corruption that really bothers you is Bush's. What a coincidence!

No investigation established that Bush lied or that 9/11 was an inside job, the latter conclusion being beyond the pale, in my opinion.

I never said that, and you didn't answer the question. Do you think Benghazi needs more investigating?

[Glen]

Sorry tank, you MUST pick a side. Thinking for yourself is not allowed.

I didn't say that. I was merely pointing out that Tank said it was probably true that republicans do the same thing, but then he had to add that democrats are obviously worse.

[Glen]

So, the corruption that really bothers you is Bush's. What a coincidence!

No investigation established that Bush lied or that 9/11 was an inside job, the latter conclusion being beyond the pale, in my opinion.

I don't think that 9/11 was an inside job but we were obviously unprepared for it. Imagine if a democrat had been president then, we'd still be investigating.

As for the Iraq war...faulty intelligence led to an ill-planned invasion that we're still paying for. Again, imagine that happening under a democrat. Again, there would still be cries for more investigations.

[mtangelsfan]

blah, blah, blah republican.  blah, blah, blah democrat.

[juansavage1]

Bottom line is whether you think Clinton is shady or not and whether a yes answer would change your vote.

[arch stanton]

You might have read back a few threads before diving in so deep.

[HaloMagic]

blah, blah, blah republican. blah, blah, blah democrat.

I'm with mt in this one. Are we seriously not tired of arguing whether Democrats or Republicans are worse? And do you honestly believe that one of these groups is more careless, more corrupt, more evil than the other?

I guess it's because of our human desire to be a part of a group? To side with someone so we have someone in our corner. I don't get it. Hillary isn't good. She's not any worse than the typical not good Republican. There are some good Republicans, as well. They aren't any more noble or righteous than the good Democrats. It all evens out.

[juansavage1]

I don't think it's simple white and black hats, but there are degrees of corruption and Dems are more corrupt and dishonest in 2015 America. This is because Dems generally consider personal positions, not behavior, as important and Dems feel they can get away with more since most of the press and popular media is on their side.

[Glen]

"Both parties are the same, but the Democrats are worse."

Yeah, screw that. The next president has the potential to replace one or even two Supreme Court justices. The last thing I want is two more Scalias on the Court.