Playboy-posing veteran arrested in flag scuffle, sets off debate over everything

[Glen]

Depends on what they do.  What Rick Monday did, totally legal.

 

What the ex soldier did, probably not.  I would wager there would be no jury to convict her though.

 

Bottom line is that the flag does mean something to a lot of folks and to act like its just cloth with dye is a bad comparison and belittles those who look at the flag with honor.

 

There's no "probably" about it.  And any reasonable jury would convict her.  That said, I don't have much faith in juries.  

[HaloMagic]

No one is acting like it doesn't mean something to some people. Quite the opposite. That's why they are burning it. Because it illicits a reaction. Which is the point of protesting. Which is why the courts have upheld the right to burn the flag. But not upheld the right to steal one. I'm truly shocked that you of all people don't see it this way.

Do people get a pass for illegal behavior simply because they feel very strongly about it?

[mtangelsfan]

No one is acting like it doesn't mean something to some people. Quite the opposite. That's why they are burning it. Because it illicits a reaction. Which is the point of protesting. Which is why the courts have upheld the right to burn the flag. But not upheld the right to steal one. I'm truly shocked that you of all people don't see it this way.

Do people get a pass for illegal behavior simply because they feel very strongly about it?

 

Does that give people with an intense emotional bond with red, white and blue fabric the right to steal it from someone that doesn't have such a bond?

 

I beg to differ.  To answer your question, I think that motive many times effects the sentence or how the crime is viewed.

 

 

 

[mtangelsfan]

No, I just think people should have more respect in general and that if they are going to protest something, make it matter. 

 

What does desecrating the flag actually accomplish? 

 

It is easy to put down a flag and walk on it, it cost you nothing than perhaps the price you paid for it.  This act improves nothing, says nothing and does nothing except irritate people who most likely have zero to do with what you are protesting. 

 

It is like little kids breaking their own toys because they are mad.

[HaloMagic]

The good thing about a free society is it doesn't matter if you don't understand or agree with my actions. As long as they're within the confines of the law you have no right to stop them.

I guess you don't want to truly be free.

Edited May 7, 2015 by HaloMagic

[HaloMagic]

We should stop everyone's actions that we don't think accomplish anything.

Like gun ownership.

[mtangelsfan]

Does it matter that you think people should have more respect towards it? Does it matter that it doesn't accomplish anything? Is theft OK because you are offended? Answer the question directly.

 

What do you mean does it matter?  It matters to me. 

 

Does it matter to the law?  No.

[mtangelsfan]

The good thing about a free society is it doesn't matter if you don't understand or agree with my actions. As long as they're within the confines of the law you have no right to stop them.

I guess you don't want to truly be free.

 

Right, that is always what happens.  For instance, the KKK has a legal march planned.  On the day of the march they find their path blocked by people who do not like the KKK.

 

Should all those people blocking the KKK's path be arrested?

[Spirit]

Right, that is always what happens.  For instance, the KKK has a legal march planned.  On the day of the march they find their path blocked by people who do not like the KKK.

 

Should all those people blocking the KKK's path be arrested?

 

If the KKK filed the proper paperwork to have a march (parade) and they are being obstructed, the people obstructing them should be peacefully removed.  If they don't want to go peacefully, then yes ... they should be arrested.  

 

They should also be celebrated. 

[mtangelsfan]

If the KKK filed the proper paperwork to have a march (parade) and they are being obstructed, the people obstructing them should be peacefully removed.  If they don't want to go peacefully, then yes ... they should be arrested.  

 

They should also be celebrated. 

 

For infringing on the free rights of others? 

[Glen]

If the KKK filed the proper paperwork to have a march (parade) and they are being obstructed, the people obstructing them should be peacefully removed. If they don't want to go peacefully, then yes ... they should be arrested.

They should also be celebrated.

You're as smart as you are handsome.

[HaloMagic]

mt, in what situations do you believe the law doesn't matter?

[Crampknees]

If the KKK filed the proper paperwork to have a march (parade) and they are being obstructed, the people obstructing them should be peacefully removed.  If they don't want to go peacefully, then yes ... they should be arrested.  

 

They should also be celebrated. 

And hopefully circumcised also.  They don't need two hoods. 

[mtangelsfan]

mt, in what situations do you believe the law doesn't matter?

 

You answer my question first.

 

I never said it didn't matter.  I don't believe I said that I wouldn't expect to face some kind of charge for taking a flag away from someone.  Just wondering why the group illegally blocking the KKK gets celebrated while the soldier taking the flag gets run over the coals.

[Adam]

This was a very difficult thread to get through.

[Crampknees]

This was a very difficult thread to get through.

Not if you google her images instead. 

[mtangelsfan]

You shouldn't be baffled at all.  Breaking the law has been a tried and true method of expression since, well, pretty much forever.

[Spirit]

You answer my question first.

 

I never said it didn't matter.  I don't believe I said that I wouldn't expect to face some kind of charge for taking a flag away from someone.  Just wondering why the group illegally blocking the KKK gets celebrated while the soldier taking the flag gets run over the coals.

 

 

Boy, if I've ever come across as running this fine ex-Playboy model and soldier over the coals, my apologies.  Good for her for doing what she thought was right (or what she thought would get her some attention and press).  As long as she's onboard with facing up to the consequences of her actions, good for her!  You go girl!

 

If she thinks it's right to "save" the flag, awesome!  Now she should accept her punishment for theft of someone else's property. 

[mtangelsfan]

Never said you were one of the ones who did so Geoff.

[HaloMagic]

You answer my question first.

I never said it didn't matter. I don't believe I said that I wouldn't expect to face some kind of charge for taking a flag away from someone. Just wondering why the group illegally blocking the KKK gets celebrated while the soldier taking the flag gets run over the coals.

If the crowd blocking the path of the KKK was not following the law then they should be held accountable for their illegal action. I'm not concerned with whether people were glad they took action or not. The law said they had no right so they should not have. I don't applaud them. I don't applaud this flag lady. Follow the law. It applies to everyone in all circumstances. Or at least it should.

[mtangelsfan]

If the crowd blocking the path of the KKK was not following the law then they should be held accountable for their illegal action. I'm not concerned with whether people were glad they took action or not. The law said they had no right so they should not have. I don't applaud them. I don't applaud this flag lady. Follow the law. It applies to everyone in all circumstances. Or at least it should.

 

So you would never see a time when protestors breaking the law would be applaudable?

[mtangelsfan]

Like the Boston Tea Party?

 

Like Raoul Wahlenberg?

 

Like Ghandi?

 

Like Mandela?

 

Like MLK?

[HaloMagic]

So you would never see a time when protestors breaking the law would be applaudable?

Applauded for breaking the law? I guess it depends on the law they are breaking. If they are breaking a law that exists because their government stole a right from them then that could be applause-worthy. If they are breaking a law that protected someone's rights then no. Rights shouldn't be limited by government or citizens.

[mtangelsfan]

Applauded for breaking the law? I guess it depends on the law they are breaking. If they are breaking a law that exists because their government stole a right from them then that could be applause-worthy. If they are breaking a law that protected someone's rights then no. Rights shouldn't be limited by government or citizens.

 

So it is subjective, correct?

[mtangelsfan]

I'm baffled that you seemed so supportive of committing a crime against a person who was not violating anybody else's rights. 

 

Rights have been changing over the last few decades, have they not? 

 

A couple of weeks ago a chimpanzee was given human rights in a U.S. court.  Are you deciding who is and isn't violating rights?  I think the the Income Tax is a violation of my rights.  I think the Patriot Act is a violation of my rights.  Not everyone agrees with me.