Josh Hamilton 3,449 for 3,452

[GregAlso]

So, just to be clear, since you don't know the offseason testing regimine, and he's already admitted to "partying" once without failing a drug test,  there is no legitimate basis for you to claim 3,449 of 3,452.

 

Just to clear your statement up, just because you don't know anything about his testing regimine at all it is ok assume he has been using the whole time? The knife cuts both ways. His sobriety in season points to a general sobriety out of season. I have much more verifiable basis for my opinion than you could ever muster for yours.

 

 

To just be clear I was intially responding to your claim that the premise was BS. The premise has a solid basis in many verifiable facts. Yes, some of these "facts" are "conjecture", but conjecture based in reason and human behavior. Some of these facts, a full 2/3 of them are scientifically verifiable.

Edited April 8, 2015 by GregAlso

[Ohtaniland]

He could have used alcohol but his last two "violations" were self-reported alcohol use, not drug use. Since he has reported alcohol use it would be unfair conjecture on our part to say he's been drunk all this time. When he was banned before it was also about drug use, not just alcohol, otherwise Cabrera from the Tigers would've been suspended for DUI.

He reported it because he would've most certainly tested positive for the cocaine use. He didn't need to report the alcohol use because there's no violation for that.

[Erstad Grit]

I would be pretty hurt if my wife was only faithful to me 3,449 for 3,452.  I would probably divorce her. Sometimes one fail is enough. Also......one fail almost always means there were many more which never surfaced. 

 

[GregAlso]

He reported it because he would've most certainly tested positive for the cocaine use. He didn't need to report the alcohol use because there's no violation for that.

He never tested positive there is no indication that it was before a test he came forward, none. That is a story made up by posters on this site with no basis in fact. It has been repeated often enough that it is assumed to be fact. There was no report it was before a test and there is no reason to believe any test deemed necessary by MLB was not administered. We do know he never failed a test.

[GregAlso]

I would be pretty hurt if my wife was only faithful to me 3,449 for 3,452. I would probably divorce her. Sometimes one fail is enough. Also......one fail almost always means there were many more which never surfaced.

Your argument is complete conjecture. It rests on an assumption that infidelity is the same as drug use. You came to your argument because DiPoto utilized a marriage analogy in his statements and for no other reason. Your statement also fails to recognize previous statements of logic in this particular thread about both scientific and reasonable assumptions of Josh Hamilton's past drug use and abuse. Edited April 9, 2015 by GregAlso

[Ohtaniland]

He never tested positive there is no indication that it was before a test he came forward, none. That is a story made up by posters on this site with no basis in fact. It has been repeated often enough that it is assumed to be fact. There was no report it was before a test and there is no reason to believe any test deemed necessary by MLB was not administered. We do know he never failed a test.

 

 

Is drinking alcohol a violation? That's all I'm asking.

[GregAlso]

Is drinking alcohol a violation? That's all I'm asking.

Drinking is not a violation. We all know this because his last two slips were alcohol related and they triggered no possible disciplinary action. So I don't understand why you are asking this again.

[Bruce Nye]

I have no idea what his contract says but it is clear he did not live up to his moral commitment - and that commitment is that he has been not worthy of the contract he signed.  He is not baseball worthy that being living up to his agreement to be clean.  IMO it is not a baseball issue and he should not be playing in a sport that requires you to be clean.  The personal side is completely different.  Maybe the Angels should pay for his recovery - it's again a contract issue  of which I don't have access to - but does that mean the team should pay for his recovery?

 

I feel sorry for him, but that doesn't mean the team should continue to absorb the big contract he signed.  I am completely behind Dipoto's statement.  Baseball is a business and no business I know of would put up with the relapses Hamilton has had. 

[Inside Pitch]

So, about this article..   I get it, JH deserves a lot of credit for being a success story in his fight with addiction.  Dude also deserves a lot of praise for having made it all the way back and I'm sure he's a real inspiration for those who have been there and live with the same struggle.  At the same side, everything we're seeing now, including the team being roasted for having reacted to the news as they did played into why I never wanted him here.  I don't think it's just addiction with the guy.... there is just something always brewing, a level of drama or whatever that seems to always be bubbling below the surface with him...  I can't imagine his wife being on whatever reality show she will be on will do anything put add fuel to the fire.  

Edited April 9, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Ohtaniland]

Drinking is not a violation. We all know this because his last two slips were alcohol related and they triggered no possible disciplinary action. So I don't understand why you are asking this again.

 

My point is that he could be a closet drinker and there's no penalty for that except poor play. 

 

 "Once I do drink, I can be very deceptive, very sneaky in a lot of ways" Hamilton said. "My recovery is Christ. My recovery is an everyday process, because when I take that one day off, it leaves me open for that moment of weakness and it's always been that way."

 

Josh had 73 days off last season.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I hesitated to post this and looked to see if it was already posted but I couldn't find it.

Maybe the persepctive of this author could benefit us all. I submit it for your consideration,

 

I truly don't understand why you seem to feel the need to take up for Josh Hamilton and to try to make others feel sympathetic toward him. He is an adult, he is paid very well to play a sport, his physical health is paramount to his performance, and he has shown a pattern of retreating to things that damage it. It is simply a poor choice of coping mechanisms. The key word there is choice. Nobody is forcing him to use drugs, and he has no shortage of resources around him. If he made people aware that he was having difficulty dealing with anything, the club and/or his teammates would help him. However, they aren't mind readers.

[Erstad Grit]

Your argument is complete conjecture. It rests on an assumption that infidelity is the same as drug use. You came to your argument because DiPoto utilized a marriage analogy in his statements and for no other reason. Your statement also fails to recognize previous statements of logic in this particular thread about both scientific and reasonable assumptions of Josh Hamilton's past drug use and abuse.

Wow talk about conjecture, you assume so much. I haven't even heard or read jd's statement. Like another poster on this thread I work with adolescents. I would suggest what you have advocated for a drug addict is extremely hurtful to them. Josh needs to learn there are consequences for his choices. That's called adulthood.

[dimitrig]

I thought "3449 for 3452" referred to his record when he had a line of coke in front of him.

[Jeff Fletcher]

Let me clear up a few things. To the best of my knowledge....

Hamilton is subject to up to three tests a week during the season, with no notice. Guys show up in the clubhouse and ask for his pee. I have been interviewing him before when he's said he has to leave to pee for a collector.

In the offseason he is also subject to testing at any time, but I believe they give you some notice because you have to tell them where you are so the collector can find you. I want to say it's maybe 24 hours.

They do test for marijuana but I don't think they penalize you for it in the majors. They do in the minors.

Hamilton has his own set of rules that aren't in the CBA because when someone gets busted for drugs in order to come back he submits to an individual treatment program. That's why it keeps referring not to Hamilton violating "the drug program" but "his treatment program"

For all we know his treatment program didn't say "thou must stay clean forever" but maybe it said "do your best and don't fail a test and let us know if you slip before you slip too badly." If it's the latter, you can see why he didn't get disciplined.

[laagamer]

All addicts stay that way. I agree that it's tough.

 

I think that's why he got off. Because he appears to have a problem and makes a legitimate efforts to fix it. 

[Ohtaniland]

Let me clear up a few things. To the best of my knowledge....

Hamilton is subject to up to three tests a week during the season, with no notice. Guys show up in the clubhouse and ask for his pee. I have been interviewing him before when he's said he has to leave to pee for a collector.

In the offseason he is also subject to testing at any time, but I believe they give you some notice because you have to tell them where you are so the collector can find you. I want to say it's maybe 24 hours.

They do test for marijuana but I don't think they penalize you for it in the majors. They do in the minors.

Hamilton has his own set of rules that aren't in the CBA because when someone gets busted for drugs in order to come back he submits to an individual treatment program. That's why it keeps referring not to Hamilton violating "the drug program" but "his treatment program"

For all we know his treatment program didn't say "thou must stay clean forever" but maybe it said "do your best and don't fail a test and let us know if you slip before you slip too badly." If it's the latter, you can see why he didn't get disciplined.

Jeff, if Hamilton did a lot of closet drinking in 2014 and no drugs, would he be in violation of any rules?

There were plenty of games last season where Hamilton just had a disconnected look on his face. Like he couldn't wait for the game or even the season to end.

He looked withdrawn from the situation which is a sure sign that there was something going on. I remember Victor calling him out for not running to first base.

Edited April 9, 2015 by CALZONE

[Section517]

What kind of reaction would one get from a significant other after telling them you were faithful to them 3,449 of the 3,452 days together?

[fan_since79]

I'm concerned that he's not with the team, but "rehabbing" his shoulder at a friend's ranch in Texas. Lots of things could go wrong there.

 

Who's the friend? Where's his family? What's the timeline on his return? Sorry, tough questions, but things don't seem right to me.

[GregAlso]

Jeff, if Hamilton did a lot of closet drinking in 2014 and no drugs, would he be in violation of any rules?

There were plenty of games last season where Hamilton just had a disconnected look on his face. Like he couldn't wait for the game or even the season to end.

He looked withdrawn from the situation which is a sure sign that there was something going on. I remember Victor calling him out for not running to first base.

 

What about Miguel Cabrera? He's been popped for DUI twice I beleive. He is most likely drinking during the season. It doesn't seem to affect him or his rep much and that is seemingly because he is producing on the field. There is more talk of Josh because he was banned for drugs of abuse and came back, because his on field struggles are notable in comparison with his contract, and probably because of his vocal religous beliefs. Other players have alcohol problems and it doesn't seem to be this polarizing.

 

I didn't post this article to "defend Josh" as some think. I posted it to give another perspective that doesn't seem to be on this whole board. Why is everyone so closed to looking at multiple angles? I've been affected by the addicitons of family members. I don't make light of it and I have and do spend a lot of time dealing with the results of it both in counselling and twelve step. I am well versed in this, this is not posted lightly.

[yk9001]

What about Miguel Cabrera? He's been popped for DUI twice I beleive. He is most likely drinking during the season. It doesn't seem to affect him or his rep much and that is seemingly because he is producing on the field. There is more talk of Josh because he was banned for drugs of abuse and came back, because his on field struggles are notable in comparison with his contract, and probably because of his vocal religous beliefs. Other players have alcohol problems and it doesn't seem to be this polarizing.

 

I didn't post this article to "defend Josh" as some think. I posted it to give another perspective that doesn't seem to be on this whole board. Why is everyone so closed to looking at multiple angles? I've been affected by the addicitons of family members. I don't make light of it and I have and do spend a lot of time dealing with the results of it both in counselling and twelve step. I am well versed in this, this is not posted lightly.

 

Ahhh.  Now its making sense.  Poor Josh is being persecuted for being a Christian.

[Jeff Fletcher]

Jeff, if Hamilton did a lot of closet drinking in 2014 and no drugs, would he be in violation of any rules?

There were plenty of games last season where Hamilton just had a disconnected look on his face. Like he couldn't wait for the game or even the season to end.

He looked withdrawn from the situation which is a sure sign that there was something going on. I remember Victor calling him out for not running to first base.

I don't know what is in his treatment program exactly.

If you're suggesting that he was drinking and it was affecting him on the field, I have no way to answer that.

Let me add though that all of these conclusions people draw from a look on the face or body language or where someone is sitting or how he responds to a strikeout are ridiculous. People are all different. You can't know what's in someone's head just by watching them.

Someone once told me how much a player would be missed in the clubhouse, basing it on how he looked on the field. Well that guy almost never talked to any of his teammates in the clubhouse.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Jeff Fletcher

[Jay]

So tired of everyone saying, "... hope he gets the help he needs..."  as if they actually believe "help" is the answer.

[QuinlansMinion]

What is this thread even about.  This thread should be locked along with all the other Hamilton threads.  

[GregAlso]

Ahhh.  Now its making sense.  Poor Josh is being persecuted for being a Christian.

 

You've been looking for something to pin this on. You just can't imagine you are wrong about anything. It must suck to know everything.

 

The truth is there are only three reasons that I can see that make Josh's case diferent than other MLB players who drink too much:

 

1) He has come back from a ban for drug abuse

2) He hasn't performed well on the field of play

3) He is vocal about his religous beliefs

 

You only chose to hear the last of them. Can you find any other reason why Josh is so polarizing and Miguel Cabrera's DUIs are barely even mentioned? I don't know which one of three is the answer but it has to be one of them. Again notice number three, it doesn't say he has religous beliefs, rather it says he was vocal about them. If three is the answer then it isn't because he follows a major world religion, it is because he talks about it a lot. Honestly, I believe the answer is number 2 but I can't prove any of it.

 

I completely agree with Jeff we can never know about a player's heart from his face. Just because someone doesn't wear their heart on their sleeve doesn't mean they don't care. I don't remember Josh being very animated with Rangers when he was very productive.

 

Randy Gradishar, what about Garret Anderson? Did he not care? Some people just have a different personality.

Edited April 9, 2015 by GregAlso

[zenmaster]

Whenever I hear his name mentioned anymore I think back to May 8, 2012 and feel like we were severely baited and switched!

 

 

Ok, back on topic, I feel for the guy but he shouldn't be in pro baseball any longer so he can focus on dealing with his addiction.

Edited April 9, 2015 by zenmaster