Josh Hamilton 3,449 for 3,452

[GregAlso]

I hesitated to post this and looked to see if it was already posted but I couldn't find it.

Maybe the persepctive of this author could benefit us all. I submit it for your consideration,

 

http://theclassical.org/articles/broken-bat

 

[mtangelsfan]

That is all wonderful and great but the bottom line is that Hamilton signed a contract.  In that contract he agrees to not do drugs.  If he felt that it was unfair for him to have to make that promise then he should not have agreed to said contract.

 

That or maybe MLB should just ban all players who have used drugs since there will never be anyway to expect them to refrain from doing them again.

[mtangelsfan]

Part of the contract is the agreement between MLB and the MLPA

[yk9001]

3,449

What you want, a cookie?!?

[yk9001]

Who knows if he only had three nonsober days?

 

The whole premise of this is bs.

Edited April 8, 2015 by yk9001

[mtangelsfan]

That's key IMO. People are all upset about how he snorted some coke during the off-season as if that damaged the Angels in some way. It didn't.

 

It already has been a distraction as we have seen.  Also, we have no idea what else may be going on.  Bottom line is that the FO felt that he had done them a disservice, how doesn't that affect the team?

[GregAlso]

Who knows if he only had three nonsober days?

 

The whole premise of this is bs.

Well during the season he was tested 3 times per week, so, I doubt he was using during those times or we would've heard about it. His admission to using cocaine this time was not forced out of him in any way and MLB would've likely never known if he didn't admit it. He didn't avoid a test or confess before a test as some have suggested. That is all a made up story on this board, there is no evidence to even suggest that. He had no benefit to amitting this occured. Likely this is his only use besides the two others we know about. Those who know addicts would realize this admission was probably an act of making amends for past bad behavior and accepting the consequences of your actions. Everyone else imagines it as some self-serving act. It only is in so much as it removes the shame and faces the music.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Well then Hamilton did nothing wrong, as he definitely did not violate the CBA. Unless it affects his performance, the Angels have nothing to complain about.

And his last two years of sobriety didn't seem to help his performance too much.

thats assuming he was sober

I obviously dont know if he was or wasnt, but i dont think its a stretch that the team knows a lot more than we do, things that probably affect him negatively.

[yk9001]

Well during the season he was tested 3 times per week, so, I doubt he was using during those times or we would've heard about it. His admission to using cocaine this time was not forced out of him in any way and MLB would've likely never known if he didn't admit it. He didn't avoid a test or confess before a test as some have suggested. That is all a made up story on this board, there is no evidence to even suggest that. He had no benefit to amitting this occured. Likely this is his only use besides the two others we know about. Those who know addicts would realize this admission was probably an act of making amends for past bad behavior and accepting the consequences of your actions. Everyone else imagines it as some self-serving act. It only is in so much as it removes the shame and faces the music.

 

He's a hero.

[yk9001]

And I see people saying he dodged punishment by admitting it. Do they cancel your drug test if you do this?

 

Did they cancel his drug test?  I'd actually like to know.

 

If they DID cancel his drug test, then he weaseled out of it.

 

If the DIDN'T cancel his drug test, then the test is pretty easy to pass.  Get loaded, then by the time the drug test comes around, clean out.

 

 

So, which one was it?

[robblin17]

Well during the season he was tested 3 times per week, so, I doubt he was using during those times or we would've heard about it. His admission to using cocaine this time was not forced out of him in any way and MLB would've likely never known if he didn't admit it. He didn't avoid a test or confess before a test as some have suggested. That is all a made up story on this board, there is no evidence to even suggest that. He had no benefit to amitting this occured. Likely this is his only use besides the two others we know about. Those who know addicts would realize this admission was probably an act of making amends for past bad behavior and accepting the consequences of your actions. Everyone else imagines it as some self-serving act. It only is in so much as it removes the shame and faces the music.

The fact that the drug testing stops in the off-season is ridiculous, especially for Hamilton. These guys know how to skirt the rules. Just look at Aaron Hernandez who was shown as an around the clock pot smoker, but never failed a drug test since he knew the scheduling. Unreal that every sport does not have random AND mandatory drug testing all year long. 

[GregAlso]

Did they cancel his drug test?  I'd actually like to know.

 

If they DID cancel his drug test, then he weaseled out of it.

 

If the DIDN'T cancel his drug test, then the test is pretty easy to pass.  Get loaded, then by the time the drug test comes around, clean out.

 

 

So, which one was it?

As has been posted in other threads cocaine only stays in the human body for 3 days or so. If the test is longer than that from usage it will not be found. This is one reason why he was tested 3 times per week in season. It has not been made kown, to my knowledge, his off season testing regime.

 

 My previous response, to which you responded about "being a hero," was responding to your suggestion that he has been using all along. You are begining to sound like a troll, changing your tune to whatever suites your fickle opinion. You've completely made up accusations that he has been using all along. When that was disproven with some simple facts you respond with a sarcastic comment that had nothing to do with the issue. I imagine you can't accept personal responsibility and simply admit you are wrong. As a matter of fact that is typical of many addicts. maybe your an addict in denial and you've been using your drug, whatever it may be? You aren't adding to any discussion. You are just reacting in a bitter manner with nearly libelous conjecture to support your irrational anger at Hamilton for not performing on the field. How do you like conjecture about you?

[yk9001]

As has been posted in other threads cocaine only stays in the human body for 3 days or so. If the test is longer than that from usage it will not be found. This is one reason why he was tested 3 times per week in season. It has not been made kown, to my knowledge, his off season testing regime.

 

 My previous response, to which you responded about "being a hero," was responding to your suggestion that he has been using all along. You are begining to sound like a troll, changing your tune to whatever suites your fickle opinion. You've completely made up accusations that he has been using all along. When that was disproven with some simple facts you respond with a sarcastic comment that had nothing to do with the issue. I imagine you can't accept personal responsibility and simply admit you are wrong. As a matter of fact that is typical of many addicts. maybe your an addict in denial and you've been using your drug, whatever it may be? You aren't adding to any discussion. You are just reacting in a bitter manner with nearly libelous conjecture to support your irrational anger at Hamilton for not performing on the field. How do you like conjecture about you?

 

 

Pop quiz, hotshot: So if he can pass drug tests just about any time, how on God's green earth can you assume he was sober 3,449 days?

[yk9001]

 maybe your an addict in denial and you've been using your drug, whatever it may be? You aren't adding to any discussion. You are just reacting in a bitter manner with nearly libelous conjecture to support your irrational anger at Hamilton for not performing on the field. How do you like conjecture about you?

 

Awesome.

 

[tdawg87]

That's a .999 batting average. That's incredible!

[GregAlso]

Pop quiz, hotshot: So if he can pass drug tests just about any time, how on God's green earth can you assume he was sober 3,449 days?

Easily answered, he can only pass a test if it has been more than 3 days. if he is tested 3 times a week in season (March-September/October) he was sober during those times. Simple math tells us 3 tests in 7 days nets us less than 3 days in between each test. This leaves us Novemer-February, or about 4 months a year to account for. He just came clean this last offseason about something that he did not fail a test about. What benefit did he get from admiting his failure? He wasn't going to get caught by the MLB. If he stays quiet, nothing happens. His only motivation for admitting it is himself and his own recovery. If he was going to admit this time and if he assumed he was going to be punished then why not admit all the other times and get punished with them together? The reason is there are no other times to admit. It would be in his best interest if he was coming clean voluntarily, which he did, to come clean completely. He had no idea he would suffer no punishment, nobody thought that would be the case, not the team or the commissioner's office. This has some facts and some conjecture. Finally, if you read the article i posted, addicts just don't turn off and on their addictions. If he was using all throughout the offseason he would not be able to just stop for the next 7 months because of baseball. That is just not the way addiction works, read Strawberry's book about 80's baseball. That's the answer to the pop quiz.

Edited April 8, 2015 by GregAlso

[yk9001]

Easily answered, he can only pass a test if it has been more than 3 days. if he is tested 3 times a week in season (March-September/October) he was sober during those times. Simple math tells us 3 tests in 7 days nets us less than 3 days in between each test. This leaves us Novemer-February, or about 4 months a year to account for. He just came clean this last offseason about something that he did not fail a test about. What benefit did he get from admiting his failure? He wasn't going to get caught by the MLB. If he stays quiet, nothing happens. His only motivation for admitting it is himself and his own recovery. If he was going to admit this time and if he assumed he was going to be punished then why not admit all the other times and get punished with them together? The reason is there are no other times to admit. It would be in his best interest if he was coming clean voluntarily, which he did, to come clean completely. He had no idea he would suffer no punishment, nobody thought that would be the case, not the team or the commissioner's office. This has some facts and some conjecture. Finally, if you read the article i posted, addicts just don't turn off and on their addictions. If he was using all throughout the offseason he would not be able to just stop for the next 7 months because of baseball. That is just not the way addiction works, read Strawberry's book about 80's baseball. That's the answer to the pop quiz.

So you have zero actual idea if he's sober in the offseason.  But it makes you feel good to think so.  Got it.

[yk9001]

That's a .999 batting average. That's incredible!

 

Self-reported.

[GregAlso]

So you have zero actual idea if he's sober in the offseason.  But it makes you feel good to think so.  Got it.

7-8 moths of the year I know he is tested rigorously. I am unaware of the offseason testing regimine. It seems there is some but we aren't privy to it. But the tests he passed in season are resonable enough to assume through conjecture that he didn't bring his addiction into the season with him. So no, I don't "have zero idea" about the offseason. If he was in fullblown addictive behavior he wouldn't be able to stop in season, simple as that. For addicts wanting more ALWAYS leads to wanting more. So i have some reasonable idea he was sober but it obviously wasn't as scientifically verifiable throught tests in the offseason. So go ahead and wipe the smug smile off your face and realize you "got" nothing of what i said. Basically stop acting like a know-it-all, because you aren't, especially about addiction.

Edited April 8, 2015 by GregAlso

[Lhalo]

And I see people saying he dodged punishment by admitting it. Do they cancel your drug test if you do this? Because then I would just take PED's like nobody's business and the day of my test just say, "Don't bother, I smoked a blunt this morning." So somehow I doubt that is the case.

Serious question: Is weed part of MLB's drug policy?

[CanadianHalo]

Do we have any idea if the plan is to work him back in once he recovers from his injury or are the Angels willing to cut their losses on this one?

I really haven't been paying to much attention to this whole Hamilton thing.

[Ohtaniland]

The one thing that people keep missing here is that Hamilton doesn't really have a drug problem. He's an alcoholic. He can test everyday for drugs and come out clean but that doesn't mean he's sober. There's no alcohol testing policy so he could be drunk on testing days and not be in violation of anything. Alcohol can destroy your OPS just as fast as cocaine. 3452 days could've included a 1000 days of drinking and we would never hear about it. Sobriety is more than just not using drugs.

[GregAlso]

Serious question: Is weed part of MLB's drug policy?

 

not 100% but I believe it is listed under the drugs of abuse restrictions. Maybe someone else who is more familiar with the CBA can comment, but I am fairly certain it is banned.

 

Do we have any idea if the plan is to work him back in once he recovers from his injury or are the Angels willing to cut their losses on this one?

I really haven't been paying to much attention to this whole Hamilton thing.

 

They haven't been completely clear about this but they seem to be saying that after healing and after rehab that he would be welcome. They could easily change their tune later but that is the current stand. This is still at least a couple of months away at this point.

[yk9001]

 I am unaware of the offseason testing regimine.

So, just to be clear, since you don't know the offseason testing regimine, and he's already admitted to "partying" once without failing a drug test,  there is no legitimate basis for you to claim 3,449 of 3,452.

[GregAlso]

The one thing that people keep missing here is that Hamilton doesn't really have a drug problem. He's an alcoholic. He can test everyday for drugs and come out clean but that doesn't mean he's sober. There's no alcohol testing policy so he could be drunk on testing days and not be in violation of anything. Alcohol can destroy your OPS just as fast as cocaine. 3452 days could've included a 1000 days of drinking and we would never hear about it. Sobriety is more than just not using drugs.

 

He could have used alcohol but his last two "violations" were self-reported alcohol use, not drug use. Since he has reported alcohol use it would be unfair conjecture on our part to say he's been drunk all this time. When he was banned before it was also about drug use, not just alcohol, otherwise Cabrera from the Tigers would've been suspended for DUI.