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I believe catcher is the most difficult position to play defensively.

When I was not catching, playing in the field seemed like a vacation. And yes, I am aware there is a difference between a mitt and glove.

I did some catching back in my playing days. I hated it. Getting hit with bats on backswings, catching pitchers who were afraid to throw their best pitches, let alone wearing all that equipment in the Florida heat and humidity. I was a pretty good hitter, but catching made me so tired that it definitely affected me at the plate.

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You guys can feel free to debate it, but you should know there is zero chance of the DH being eliminated.

Zero.

Players would never go for it and I don't even think the owners would either. They like offense and they probably don't want to see some pitcher they are paying $210 million get hurt sliding.

I'm guessing both leagues will have the DH by 2020.

As they should. I don't get any entertainment watching pitchers lay down bunts all the time

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As they should. I don't get any entertainment watching pitchers lay down bunts all the time

 

or watching the #8 hitter fed a steady diet of balls off the plate.  It effectively takes out two hitters in any lineup.  

 

the wRC+ for the #8 batter in the NL is 73 and in the AL it's 93.  

for the 9th batter its 21 in the NL and 74 in the AL

 

If pitchers were still hitting in the minors then I'd could see where there would be an argument.  It's certainly not going away in places that it already exists 

 

My other argument is that the developmental curve for playing a defensive position isn't the same with the DH in effect.  

 

Having the pitcher hit was arguably necessary in the past. 

 

Here's an idea.  You lose the DH when your starting pitcher comes out of the game.  Or the player DHs for a particular pitcher, so when said pitcher comes out, that DH has to come out as well.  Maybe expand the rosters by a couple of players.  So Weaver is pitching and Joyce is Dhing and batting in the 6 spot.  Take weaver out and Joyce has to come out as well. Make it so you don't have to announce the DH for he next pitcher until the spot comes up in the lineup.   You could also have the option of allowing the player who is DHing then field a defensive position.   So if Joyce is due up 2nd the next inning, he grabs a glove and goes to LF and then the new DH takes the old LFers spot.  Or if Joyce made the last out, you could double switch and put in a defensive replacement in the #6 spot at 2b and then have the new DH bat in the 2b slot.  It would make your lineup construction more important relative to who you might replace and allow for a lot of strategy.  

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To those who call themselves "purists" - I think they should wear suits to the game, like they did way back when... they should also not limit their complaints to the DH, but also advocate for going back to using small gloves, and to eliminating night baseball, etc.

Edited by True Grich
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I did some catching back in my playing days. I hated it. Getting hit with bats on backswings, catching pitchers who were afraid to throw their best pitches, let alone wearing all that equipment in the Florida heat and humidity. I was a pretty good hitter, but catching made me so tired that it definitely affected me at the plate.

dude was obviously a juicer, but thats why i always liked pudge rodriguez. Had a great bat and was a witch behind the plate. IMO one of the more underrated players of the last 20 years, even with an mvp award.

Not saying its ok he used steroids (and played in arlington), but his bat with his defense behind the plate was probably one of the best overall values of his era

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To those who call themselves "purists" - I think they should wear suits to the game, like they did way back when... they should also not limit their complaints to the DH, but also advocate for going back to using small gloves, and to eliminating night baseball, etc.

Exactly. We should also reinstate the negro leagues, get rid of bullpens and the playoffs, and eliminate expansion teams.

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You guys can feel free to debate it, but you should know there is zero chance of the DH being eliminated.

Zero.

Players would never go for it and I don't even think the owners would either. They like offense and they probably don't want to see some pitcher they are paying $210 million get hurt sliding.

I'm guessing both leagues will have the DH by 2020.

 

I don't think anyone is asking for the DH to be eliminated. I do like the DH and would like to see it continue, but I think pitchers batting is part of the game in it's purist form and eliminating that entirely does a disservice to the sport. I do understand the competing factors against it, but I don't think it's in the best interest of the game to give in to them. It's very similar to implementing these anti-shift rules. Let's let the game solve itself. We can make minor changes to the rules, but the core rules of the game don't need to be re-written.

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or watching the #8 hitter fed a steady diet of balls off the plate.  It effectively takes out two hitters in any lineup.  

 

the wRC+ for the #8 batter in the NL is 73 and in the AL it's 93.  

for the 9th batter its 21 in the NL and 74 in the AL

 

If pitchers were still hitting in the minors then I'd could see where there would be an argument.  It's certainly not going away in places that it already exists 

 

My other argument is that the developmental curve for playing a defensive position isn't the same with the DH in effect.  

 

Having the pitcher hit was arguably necessary in the past. 

 

Here's an idea.  You lose the DH when your starting pitcher comes out of the game.  Or the player DHs for a particular pitcher, so when said pitcher comes out, that DH has to come out as well.  Maybe expand the rosters by a couple of players.  So Weaver is pitching and Joyce is Dhing and batting in the 6 spot.  Take weaver out and Joyce has to come out as well. Make it so you don't have to announce the DH for he next pitcher until the spot comes up in the lineup.   You could also have the option of allowing the player who is DHing then field a defensive position.   So if Joyce is due up 2nd the next inning, he grabs a glove and goes to LF and then the new DH takes the old LFers spot.  Or if Joyce made the last out, you could double switch and put in a defensive replacement in the #6 spot at 2b and then have the new DH bat in the 2b slot.  It would make your lineup construction more important relative to who you might replace and allow for a lot of strategy.  

 

If they are going to do away with pitchers batting they need to compensate for it in some way. I don't particularly enjoy that AL games are played most optimally with near 0 strategy or maneuvering. The bench in the AL exist almost solely as a safety net for injuries, which allows teams to play with deeper bullpens. Considering that starting pitchers can go deeper into games, and bullpens can have more arms, I'm actually surprised that they run environment is so drastically different.

 

Eventually we will see the same thing happen with catchers, and I think that will be a shame as well. We don't need to continue to specialize the game. 

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Sorry, guys. I've been admonished by Troll Daddy, so I can't post again for a couple of days.

That guy should be treated like the dude from Office Space. Let him post here, but put him on everyone's ignored list. So he is here technically, but no one can see or hear him. It'll sort itself out eventually

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Pitcher Carlos Zambrano has 24 career home runs so there's no reason why pitchers shouldn't hit.

 

He was the exception, not the rule. He still only managed a .238 AVG and .636 OPS, and he's considered one of the best hitting pitchers of the last 15 years.

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I would rather see DHs go away. Having the pitcher bat gives the game more strategy and I'm a huge fan of small-ball: bunting, etc...

 

But, we've all seen what Scoscia does when he wants players to bunt.....

ncusvi-b88220280z.120141002223310000gm85

Edited by failos
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I seriously doubt that will ever happen. Greinke is probably the best hitting pitcher in baseball currently and he boasts a career .605 OPS. Pitchers are all terrible hitters. Catchers aren't.

 

Yes, but hitting is all relative. If pitchers don't bat then suddenly catchers are easily the worst hitters on the field. Hell when Mathis was on the team I'd almost rather have used the DH on him than the pitcher! 

 

It's not hard to see the arguments about the Posey's and the Mauer's of the world having shortened careers and less time on the field because they are catching. 

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I seriously doubt that will ever happen. Greinke is probably the best hitting pitcher in baseball currently and he boasts a career .605 OPS. Pitchers are all terrible hitters. Catchers aren't.

 

Also I'm gona bump this thread in 50 years when Bleacher report is pushing their catcher DH agenda down our throats. ;-)

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