They better get it right this time.....

[Angel Oracle]

Grich should be in.

 

So should Whitaker.

 

Kent belongs in the "Good Second Baseman Who Injured Himself While Washing His Motorcycle" wing. He'd have that wing all to himself, which is probably what he'd prefer.

Whitaker and Trammel are pretty much 1A and 1B, spending their entire long careers with the Tigers and each having just under 2400 hits as the long, long time double play combo.

 

MLB will likely never, eeeever again see that long of a double play combo for one team.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[Inside Pitch]

I would be really careful when citing WAR for players who played before the defensive metrics used for WAR existed.

 

I believe they use some sort of defensive "estimates" for those guys.

 

Yep, but I think this is one of those times where all of the players are being judged in the same light.  Defensive metrics didn't really take a big step forward until after Biggio was out of baseball, I think dWar came about in 2009, possibly 2010..    But yeah, prior to the recent changes and implementation of computers to track batted ball data MLB used people sitting in the stands to track that info and as such it was all very subjective.

[Angelsjunky]

Have you calmed down yet, Inside Pitch?

[Jim]

Yep, but I think this is one of those times where all of the players are being judged in the same light.  Defensive metrics didn't really take a big step forward until after Biggio was out of baseball, I think dWar came about in 2009, possibly 2010..    But yeah, prior to the recent changes and implementation of computers to track batted ball data MLB used people sitting in the stands to track that info and as such it was all very subjective.

Being judged equal, I too fall on the side of Grich getting in the HOF. How many will that make for the Orioles?

Edited January 13, 2015 by Jim

[Inside Pitch]

Have you calmed down yet, Inside Pitch?

 

Stop projecting.  

[Angelsjunky]

Stop projecting.  

 

Wow, you really lost it in this one. This is a non-issue for me - I've felt nothing but calm and just a bit of confusion about your response to me. I love Grich and hope he gets in someday. I was merely pointing out that Biggio and others are deserving as well, and there was no need to belittle their accomplishments, and you flipped out. Clearly other things at play for you here.

[Inside Pitch]

Wow, you really lost it in this one. This is a non-issue for me - I've felt nothing but calm and just a bit of confusion about your response to me. I love Grich and hope he gets in someday. I was merely pointing out that Biggio and others are deserving as well, and there was no need to belittle their accomplishments, and you flipped out. Clearly other things at play for you here.

 

 

Yes....  I'm the one that lost it -- that's why I'm the one that keeps extending this right?  I mean, what exactly did your post today have to do with anything that's been argued?  Like I said -- stop projecting.

 

I haven't belittled anyone, I have in fact said that Biggio was deserving.  Whitaker too, and I've argued that Utley should be considered but may ultimately not be.  I pointed out that Alomar was considered a plus defender and yet he fell short of what Grich had been.  I plainly stated my opinions, backed them up with the facts I felt supported them and went on record as saying that my saying Biggio couldn't carry Grich's jock wasn't a slam on him so much as a testament to how good Grich had been -- not sure why you can't get over that comment but maybe you can get together with your therapist or whoever it is you are getting your amateur psychology insights from and work it out.  The only thing I find remotely annoying in this is you doing one thing, saying another and the self serving tripe you're spewing now.  If it makes you feel better to think you "got to me" in some way, feel free.     

 

IMO the fact you took the conversation away from the debate itself towards a more personal nature speaks volumes as to our relative emotional states.  IMO, you're reading way too much into written text and making some serious assumptions but whatever man..   

 

Cheers.

[Angelsjunky]

Wow.

[mtangelsfan]

Geez you two, do we need to move this to the spin forum?

[moccasin]

Wow. Didn't know that Grich was such a great player, and it's exciting that he gets another chance.

Arguments bring out the best of information in many occasions, and I'm thankful for it.