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Vlad and the Hall of Fame


eaterfan

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He might not. The ballot is packed. Was Vlad better than Raines?

 

That's an excellent question...   In the eyes of the typical voter, Vlad probably is way ahead of Raines, but a person could make a pretty solid case that Tim Raines was the better player.

 

Hall Of Fame Statistics - Raines
Player rank in (·)

 

Black Ink Batting - 20 (107), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink Batting - 114 (182), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 90 (193), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 47 (104), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS Left Field (8th), 69.1 career WAR/42.2 7yr-peak WAR/55.6 JAWS

Average HOF LF (out of 19) = 65.1 career WAR/41.5 7yr-peak WAR/53.3 JAWS

Hall Of Fame Statistics - Vlad
Player rank in (·)

 

Black Ink Batting - 6 (354), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink Batting - 166 (66), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 209 (42), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 58 (39), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS Right Field (21st), 59.3 career WAR/41.1 7yr-peak WAR/50.2 JAWS

Average HOF RF (out of 24) = 73.2 career WAR/42.9 7yr-peak WAR/58.1 JAWS

 

Edited by Inside Pitch
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I'm pretty sure he gets in. Maybe not first ballot, but he hit for average and power and had an absolute cannon in right field. .318 career average, almost 2,600 hits (almost 1,000 of those for extra bases), 449 HRs, 1,496 RBI and 11 straight seasons of batting at least .300 with at least 25 HRs. Vlad was one of the best of all time, without question.

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HOF decides which hat the player goes in with -- this was to stop the late career contract signings where a club would sign a future HOF'er and state in the contract the guy would choose that team's hat -- even though the guy was past his prime and just playing out the final year or two of his career with the team.

 

Have to check Vlad's stats again -- I think he's probably worthy of HOF consideration but by no means is a shoo-in.

 

compared to other players during his era his stats probably rank right up here -- have to check his stats again to compare his Montreal stats against his Halos stats.

 

HOF and MLB would have a tough call here -- why have a guy go in with the hat of a team that no longer exists and likely won't ever have an MLB team again?  But then he really made his name with the Expos and if I check the career stats -- that's where most of his HRs were hit and where he had most of his base hits.....so it may be appropriate.

 

Nolan Ryan should have been the first Halo in -- he had his best years in Anaheim but then he cut that deal to go in with whatever hat he went in with (Texas?).

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VLAD's HOF claim -- 449 HRs (not quite 500) and 2,590 hits.

 

He played 8 years with the Expos and had his best seasons in Montreal -- total of 234 HRs there and 1,215 of his hits.

 

He played 6 years with the Halos and had some very good years in Anaheim -- total of 173 HRs there and 1,034 hits.

 

So its close. I think a case could be made to have Vlad go in as a Halo especially since the Expos don't exist anymore. But then, he could be the Expos one and only All Star.

 

I assume the veteran's committee hasn't put Rusty Staub in yet and Gary Carter -- did he go in as an Expo?

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Ryan went in as a Houston Astro despite having his best years, most wins and stellar seasons with the Angels including 4 of his no-hitters.

 

Rusty Staub, despite being a near icon in Montreal -- only played three seasons there but he played on the initial expansion team (like he did with the Astros) so he quickly became a fan favorite..........other than being a fan favorite, his stats are not anywhere near HOF worthy.

 

Looking at stats and Expos HOF stuff -- how can Gary Carter be elected to the HOF and Mike Piazza be on the outside looking in?

 

Piazza's carrer offense numbers as a catcher far out-pace Gary Carter's.

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If you go to the official HOF website and search by team, both Nolan Ryan and Rod Carew are listed as having the LA/California Angels as their primary team. 

 

http://baseballhall.org/explorer?name=&team=129&induction=All&pos=All&state=All&born%5Bvalue%5D%5Bdate%5D=&bats=All&throws=All

 

pretty odd for carew actually because he played 12yrs with the twins and 7 with the halos.  His best years were with the twins as well.  

 

personally I think Vlad should go in as an Expo.  Would have been interesting if the halos bring Vlad back for his last two years.  

 

I do think he gets in and there is a good chance it's on the first ballot.  I think the fact that he was such a freak in terms of ability and had no roid association will actually work in his favor.  

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Vlad should go in as an Angel - Expos have Gary Carter (should have gone in as a Met being that his greatest moments came in NY) - I think vlad is a hall of famer for sure - maybe that one day contract retirement thing helps - maybe not - regardless it was pretty cool to watch (except for Baylor's injury of course)   

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 Also, FWIW. I don't think its a guarantee he even gets in.

 

I said this a while ago, the last time we had a discussion on Vlad and the Hall--and I seem to remember basically getting laughed at.  :)  *I* personally think he should get in--but I don't think it's a sure thing at all. 

Edited by jsnpritchett
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Who cares. It's a building with a bunch of musty artifacts. Whether or not Vlad gets into the HOF or wears an Angels cap means very little to me.

You can't take away those great bombs, or those hoses from RF to the plate. You also can't take away the golf swings at pitches that bounced three feet in front of home plate, or the limpy rounding the bases, looking like 3/4 of the players from the AW softball game.

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I find it odd that cheaters of the past like Gaylord Perry aren't seen as villians like those that used PED, especially when it comes to the Hall Of Fame. Heck, pitchers are celebrated more for cheating.  I guess it all comes down to people being bent that those hallowed baseball home run records were broken.  

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I find it odd that cheaters of the past like Gaylord Perry aren't seen as villians like those that used PED, especially when it comes to the Hall Of Fame. Heck, pitchers are celebrated more for cheating.  I guess it all comes down to people being bent that those hallowed baseball home run records were broken.  

 

 

Here are the reasons I have more of a problem with PEDs:

 

1) Players can't get caught using them using ordinary means. Umpires can see a guy going to his belt to throw a spitball. A bat can break and the ump can see the cork. Managers can request umpires check a pitcher's glove or a bat if they feel cheating is going on. Managers can't request a blood or urine test if they feel a player is using PEDs. Even fans can sometimes spot the pine tar or rosin on a hat from TV.

 

2) PEDs can be harmful to a player's health. In order to keep up with the competition a player shouldn't have to do something that is potentially harmful to their health. Using a corked bat or throwing a spitball isn't.

 

There are other reasons which are fairly trivial, like in game penalties for the team that gets caught with a corked bat, but the above are the main two.

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I don't care about the players health aspect of it, mainly because they are grown men and know the ramifications of their actions. If this shorten their life, that's on them. If this prevents them from receiving accolades like the Hall of Fame then that's on them. If they want to be publicly ridiculed and called a cheater, then they made that bed, they can now lie in it.

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Having more of a problem with PED is one thing.  The actual gap in perception is enormous.  Plenty of pitchers used, I'm sure, but how many have been vilified?  Clemens has, but that has a lot to do with him being a dick.  The home run records are a significant factor, which is silly.  

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