David Freese Does Not Suck

[Second Base]

The proof is in the numbers - http://monkeywithahalo.com/2015-articles/david-freese-does-not-suck.html

 

I think we'll see a pretty decent season from him as he heads into free agency next year and picks up one last big paycheck.  I'm betting he'll get Chase Headley money. 

[ukyah]

The proof is in the numbers - http://monkeywithahalo.com/2015-articles/david-freese-does-not-suck.html

 

I think we'll see a pretty decent season from him as he heads into free agency next year and picks up one last big paycheck.  I'm betting he'll get Chase Headley money. 

 

 

i'm betting significantly less. like half or something. contracts aren't about what you do on the field, they're about perception. 

 

headley has a few mitigating factors that empowered and drove his market somewhat. freese has mitigating perceptions that will keep his value down.

[eaterfan]

His last two years have been pretty bad. Sure he's no Vernon Wells but he's not good at all. He's a below average starter and his last two years have been bad. 

 

I think Headley is a really bad comparison for Freese. Headley the last two year (what people on this board refer to as down years for him) has put up 8 WAR on Fangraphs. In his career Freese has put up 10.1. Last year Headley put up a higher WAR than Freese ever has.

[Oz27]

Freese sucked for extremely long parts of last season (the entire first half and all of August). I'd wager his numbers will be similar to what he posted this year, but I see him as a regression candidate. As for whether he gets Chase Headley money, not a chance unless Tony Reagins gets another job somewhere or he has another 2012 type year.

[Second Base]

Did you guys actually read the article?

[Lou]

Did you guys actually read the article?

 

if i were a betting man....

[eaterfan]

I read the article. But basically it was just parsing the difference between sucks and bad. Also it relied heavily on career numbers and tried to portray last year as an outlier due to new scenery and an injury. That would be fine except he was bad in 2013 too.

 

Also I would like to add why some people are okay with Grant Green replacing Freese but not Howie is that Howie is a better player than Freese. The drop off between Howie and Green is greater than between Freese and Green and Green could even be an upgrade over Freese. The chances Green can put up 1.2 WAR at 3B are greater than him putting up 3.0 at 2B.

Edited January 8, 2015 by eaterfan

[NJHalo]

ScottyA_MWAH

Posted Today, 09:36 AM

Did you guys actually read the article?

Yes!

For some reason.....yadda, yadda, yadda...........David Freese does not suck.

[mulwin444]

The best thing Freese has going for him right now is there are not a lot of 3B options available in the MLB that aren't mediocre so he'll definitely a tender candidate when taking that in consideration.  His career has shown him to be a dcent .280/.350 OBP hitter with some extra base pop which I can live with and it not muc different than Headley offensively.  My concern is just having him stay on the field and his defensive shortcomings.  If he can bring .280/.350 OBP to start the season, he'd be a perfect candidate to bat between Calhoun and Trout to stretch the line-up. 

[Adam]

I did not read the article, but I agree. I think Freese is going to have his best season in 2015

[Angel Oracle]

His OPS was around .775 from June 1 on, granted up and down within the months.    That was one heck of a September though (.929 OPS).

[Hubs]

Article is full of holes, and I always support our guys (except for a few).

 

Freese is going to be what 32? Not quite past his prime, but he needs work.

 

I was only advocating they move him instead of Kendrick, because I thought that Beckham could deliver a pretty close offensive season at third while being superior defensively. Now that they've moved Kendrick for future rotation stud Heaney, I think they might want to consider extending Freese.

 

The Organization has a lot of pitching now, while the national media seems not to thinks so, they have 9-10 starters who could contribute in 2015 if needed, and 10 or so guys from the Pen. They traded away their top 2B prospect last season and their starting 2B, but acquired a lot of depth. What they don't have is depth at 3rd base. 

 

Freese starts, right now Rutledge or Green is likely to be his replacement (which is why I still think they'll sign Beckham, who virtually has no place to go for a guaranteed starting job besides maybe Toronto or Oakland).

 

In AAA, Ryan Wheeler and Chris Curley will probably man the hot corner, both are over 26, and neither are top prosepects. I suppose Wheeler would get the call if there was a long term injury to Freese, but he's not going to set the world on fire. Luis Jimenez has departed for Milwaukee I believe.

 

In AA, you've got former top prospect Kaleb Cowart, who is one more season bad away from transitioning to the mound. He has not hit in AA and thus promise unfulfilled.

 

In High-A, Angel Rosa and Alex Albritton are both listed as 3rd base, but while Rosa had a few good games at IE last year, in low A neither hit better than .700 OPS. 

 

In Low-A, They have Zach Houchins a 2014 draftee that struggled a bit there last year, but destroyed Orem. They also have Dominican Ismael Dioncio who didn't do too well at Low-A last year either, and at 23, needs to start moving up the latter or move on.

 

Which is why I think they'll go for Beckham as a backup for 2015 or make a move for a prospect. It's also why Baldoquin makes sense if he can play 3rd (I expect him to start at High A, but move quickly up to AA and then to AAA, and if successful he could be a September call-up.

[Oz27]

Did you guys actually read the article?

Yes...and what I said still stands. But if you want me to talk about the article, I think it's a good example of how any argument can be made when you cherry pick stats.

[Tyler]

I like Freese as well. His problem is no doubt tied to health, so if he can get healthy he'll be an above average offensive third baseman. People have been harsh on this guy because of the package we gave up for him.

[Angel Oracle]

And the Kubitza acquisition now also factors into Freese's future here.

[Revad]

I did not read the article, but I agree. I think Freese is going to have his best season in 2015

I agree, based on the end of last year he is healthy and comfortable plus it's a contract year. I hope he crushes it.

[disarcina]

Freese's bat did come alive a bit in the second half -- and during the August/ September stretch run -- his offense contributed to the team's winning percentage during those months which lifted their record to the best in baseball........no doubt about that.

 

But Freese started out slowly -- and is just plain SLOW.

 

He's not very good at D down at 3B, is not only SLOW but a terrible base runner and his slowness leads him to being a constant GIDP rally killer with a guy on base.

 

Now the trade we made for Freese sort of helped both clubs - and actually the other OF'er we gave up - Grichuck? -- he actually played more than Bourjos did down the stretch for St. Louis.

 

as for PJB -- always a favorite of mine -- he started the season slow, had some sort of injury and never really re-grouped. Hated to see what happened to him last season - he did play enough OF to make some decent plays out there for the Cardinals but by the time August and September rolled around he was pretty much limited to some spot appearances as a PR and perhaps some late inning defensive innings - very few ABs.......

 

Freese did better than that for us -- we didn't give up much (I liked PJB a lot but he wasn't going to play much with the crowded OF in Anaheim).......but Freese was not the player many of us thought we were getting.......his power numbers were marginal, his defense subpar and his base-running ability very weak combined with his just general slowness.......

 

there's a reason why when scouts look at position players in a try out the first thing they have them do is run the 50 and have them timed......can't teach speed. Slowness is a death knell or at least a GIDP waiting to happen.......when he was off being a World Series hero in St. Louis, his slowness wasn't noticed much and his last of defensive prowess not highlighted (although Freese didn't like it when a very smart LaRussa would pull him for a Defensive replacement in the late innings -- much as Scioscia started doing with McDonald and then Beckham).

 

Freese did an adequate job for us.....did not meet expectations......but sort of got the position filled in the line up card and got the job done -- sort of.

[disarcina]

from the post above -- 'possibly extend Freese?'  I say NO.

 

he's 32 and going to get slower than he already is which is hard to do.

 

we've got better guys in the system (for less!!) now and just acquired this 3B prospect from Atlanta.

 

I'd say Freese days in a Halos uni, well, the countdown starts now.

[disarcina]

as for the package we gave up for Freese -- it was PJB and Grichuk.......

 

and we got Fernando Salas for the pen along with Freese.

 

pretty even swap.

 

Salas has provided some pen depth -- although was clearly ineffective at times last year.

 

Freese started at 3B for us most of the year.

 

PJB never really got going with St. Louis and then sort of fell into disfavor with management and with the fans -- something I find to be very unfortunate and sad for an all out hustle speedster like Bourjos -- I would have sworn he would become a fan favorite because of the way he plays the game but it didn't happen.

 

Grichuk actually ended up being the better end of the deal for St. Louis and gain some playing time during the second half of the season.