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2015 HOF Candidates


happybat4

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Who do you think gets in?

I think it will be Big Unit, Pedro, Smoltz and Biggio

I also think Raine's and Bagwell deserve to get in. I don't get the whole love affair with Smoltz. Yes he was great, but was he really any better than Schilling or Mussina?

Edited by notti
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Hate to say but Smoltz, Mussina and Schilling all belong in the Hall of Really Good. I just don't see any of the three truly dominating baseball for any stretch of time, just being better a few years at a time than their mid 3 ERA careers.

Smoltz has one Cy Young, the other two honorable mentions. Schilling is suspect by suddenly pitching well below his career ERA at age 34 right in the heart of the roid decade. Mussina was just a very reliable arm but nothing remarkable.

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Except for the difference in saves accumulated, the careers of Eckersley and Smoltz are similar. Good to very good as starters, dominant as closers.

Even their ERA+ is not far apart.

Big Unit, Pedro, and Biggio are no brainers.

Strange that Biggio didn't get in the first time, 3000+ hits is usually first timer territory.

Edited by Angel Oracle
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Smoltz was a dominant starter for much of the 90s then became an elite closer for a few years and then went back to being a dominant starter for a few years - how cool is that? Anyhow, definitely a HOFer in my book - but so are (or should be) Mussina and Schilling.

 

Anyhow, the Hall of Fame doesn't have a huge amount of credibility, in my opinion. It is ridiculous when players like Jim Rice or Tony Perez or Bruce Sutter get voted in but Edgar Martinez or Alan Trammell or Tim Raines don't. I also think the whole Roid Era messes things up, but I imagine that in 20 years voters will be kinder and Bonds, Clemens etc will get in.

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I have never understood the lack of support for Mussina. I just read that in a poll of ESPN "voters" (some of whom may actually have a real HOF vote), 14 out of 17 would vote for Smoltz, but only 2 would vote for Mussina. That is probably indicative of the general sentiment.

Yet Mussina threw more innings over his career, had a nearly identical ERA+ to Smoltz (123 for Mussina, 125 for Smoltz), came as close to 300 wins as any pitcher probably ever will again, and had a much higher WAR (82 to 67; though admittedly, I think WAR is almost useless for evaluating pitchers). It makes no sense to me that someone would vote for Smoltz but not Mussina.

Edited by wopphil
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Another dumb rule (can only vote for seven max) and I can't really blame the guy for doing this.

 

http://www.syracuse.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/01/voter_leaves_randy_johnson_off_baseball_hall_of_fame_ballot_for_strategic_reasons.html

 

As for me...

 

Biggio

Nomar (if he didn't have the injuries).

Johnson

Pedro

Piazza

Smoltz

Raines

Smith

Mussina

McGriff

Schilling

 

and just cause I want to...Jeff Kent.

 

You know what..screw it. I vote for Nomar, too.

 

 

 

Bagwell...like ya..but nah.

Clemens. No.

Bonds. Hell no.

Edgar. Can't do it.

Percival. Maybe

Sosa. Yeah, right.

Trammel. Nah.

McGwire. Still my one of my favorite players..but can't do it.

Edited by DW711
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Who do you think gets in?

I think it will be Big Unit, Pedro, Smoltz and Biggio

I also think Raine's and Bagwell deserve to get in. I don't get the whole love affair with Smoltz. Yes he was great, but was he really any better than Schilling or Mussina?

 

 

Hate to say but Smoltz, Mussina and Schilling all belong in the Hall of Really Good. I just don't see any of the three truly dominating baseball for any stretch of time, just being better a few years at a time than their mid 3 ERA careers.

Smoltz has one Cy Young, the other two honorable mentions. Schilling is suspect by suddenly pitching well below his career ERA at age 34 right in the heart of the roid decade. Mussina was just a very reliable arm but nothing remarkable.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/105579060/john-smoltz-hall-of-fame-case-starter-reliever-stats

 

Kenney makes a pretty good case for Smoltz.

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Bonds will eventually get in. I have no problem with him not getting in on his first few ballots, he cheated. Was he a GREAT player? Yes, but he also cheated. In a few years he will be voted in, then the voters will have to decide where to draw the line. If Bonds cheated and became one of the very best ever, should Sosa and his 600 HRs make it in? Should Palmero and his 500 HRs and 3,000 hits make it in? My issue with all this is we have no idea who was and wasn't cheating. We know Palmero and Bonds as well as Clemens, Sosa and McGuire, but my guess is we already have steroid guys in the Hall.

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Another dumb rule (can only vote for seven max) and I can't really blame the guy for doing this.

http://www.syracuse.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/01/voter_leaves_randy_johnson_off_baseball_hall_of_fame_ballot_for_strategic_reasons.html

As for me...

Biggio

Nomar (if he didn't have the injuries).

Johnson

Pedro

Piazza

Smoltz

Raines

Smith

Mussina

McGriff

Schilling

and just cause I want to...Jeff Kent.

You know what..screw it. I vote for Nomar, too.

Bagwell...like ya..but nah.

Clemens. No.

Bonds. Hell no.

Edgar. Can't do it.

Percival. Maybe

Sosa. Yeah, right.

Trammel. Nah.

McGwire. Still my one of my favorite players..but can't do it.

How do you say no to Bagwell. He might be one of the top 5 first basemen ever.

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Hate to say but Smoltz, Mussina and Schilling all belong in the Hall of Really Good. I just don't see any of the three truly dominating baseball for any stretch of time, just being better a few years at a time than their mid 3 ERA careers.

Smoltz has one Cy Young, the other two honorable mentions. Schilling is suspect by suddenly pitching well below his career ERA at age 34 right in the heart of the roid decade. Mussina was just a very reliable arm but nothing remarkable.

 

A Mid 3 ERA amounts to a career ERA+ of 123 for Mussina which is better than Bob Lemon, Eddie Plank, Don Drysdale, Tom Glavine, Gaylord Perry, Jim Bunning, Steve Carlton, Ron Guidry, Nolan Ryan, Warren Spahn and about 20 other HOFers.  

 

His Grey Ink, HOF Standard, HOF Monitor and JAWS, figures all exceed those of the average HOFer.   He ranks 57th in WAR all time (between Ken Griffey Jr and Nolan Ryan), 24th in WAR for a pitcher (Right behind Pedro), his 270 wins rank 33rd, He's 19th on the career K list.  It's not like he pitched for 24 years just to compile stats, Mussina walked away from the game of his own free will after a 20 win season and an ERA+ season of 131 at age 39. 

 

Mike Mussina is one of the more underrated pitchers of his era, his lack of praise likely stems from his having been very reserved and not much of an interview.  He was a boring guy.  Smoltz seems to be getting a lot of love for things that happened outside of the boxscores, I've seen a lot of people who argue he's a first ballot HOFer also make an argument that Mussina doesn't belong in the HOF at all.  I agree that Schilling's career is a bit dubious -- he really took off at right about the time Barry Bond's hat size started to change and for all his constant blathering about the rampant use of steroids when it came time for the rubber to meet the road and speak out to Congress he chose not to.

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Can't believe how many people want Bonds and Clemens in. Not only did they cheat, but they were first rate assholes. They could have at least been nice cheaters like Sosa

I would prefer our HOFers to be good guys, but that isn't as important to me. I would much rather reward guys who didn't cheat, but these guys will get in over time.

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Smoltz was a hell of a pitcher and I think he even is a HOF player. I just don't understand how he is a shoe in lock, while Mussina and Schilling are not considered good enough to get in. They had very similar careers. Smoltz closed for three years and gets a ton of support because of that. If he was a starting pitchers those three years instead of closing, he may not have the same support.

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