SB Nation: The Angels have a BP problem

[arch stanton]

SB Nation has a "stuff to write about after Christmas" problem.

[Bruce Nye]

Jeppy scared the crap out of all of us until the 2nd half.  JD sold high.  I loved it.  He's someone else's problem now.  After 13 years in the organization he finally showed some value.  But can he be trusted in 2015?

 

Doubtful.   

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Frankly, I'm less concerned about the bullpen than just about any other aspect of the team.

[Troll Daddy]

Let's be honest ... the bullpen did take a hit. Doesn't mean some of our young 'cost controlled' arms can't step in and dominate.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Troll Daddy

[Blarg]

At the start of last season the bullpen took a lot of hits.

[nate]

Jeppy scared the crap out of all of us until the 2nd half.  JD sold high.  I loved it.  He's someone else's problem now.  After 13 years in the organization he finally showed some value.  But can he be trusted in 2015?

 

Doubtful.   

 

We still haven't filled the hole he left.  Not sure why everyone is fixated on how he was probably not going to do as well.  It is the GMs job to account for that and fill that gap.  I also don't consider trading a top 15 reliever from last season for a 4th OF slap hitting bench player selling high.

Edited December 31, 2014 by nate

[Angelsjunky]

Regression from Street? Why exactly? I don't see any reason for him to not be as dominate. Dude is a great closer.

 

It was partially answered above, although I will only add that I disagree with you that Street is a "great" closer. He is a very good closer who had a great year, and seems great compared to recent years - certainly the best closer we've had since Francisco departed. "Great" closers are pitchers like Holland, Chapman, and Kimbrel. Street is not on that level.

 

We still haven't filled the hole he left.  Not sure why everyone is fixated on how he was probably not going to do as well.  It is the GMs job to account for that and fill that gap.  I also don't consider trading a top 15 reliever from last season for a 4th OF slap hitting bench player selling high.

 

I agree with you about Joyce, who some may be overrated - including Dipoto. He really is a 4th outfielder, or a starter on a poor club. But he's a useful player to have and gives the Angels an alternative to Cron if he's sucking up the joint, or if Hamilton or Calhoun get hurt. So I don't think the Angels "sold high," but they did "sell equal." A good 4th outfielder is about equal in value to a good middle reliever, and also the Angels have similar and less expensive options in players like Pestano, Morin, and Salas.

Edited December 31, 2014 by Angelsjunky

[Mark68]

At the start of last season the bullpen took a lot of hits.

And gave them up, too.

[beatlesrule]

It was partially answered above, although I will only add that I disagree with you that Street is a "great" closer. He is a very good closer who had a great year, and seems great compared to recent years - certainly the best closer we've had since Francisco departed. "Great" closers are pitchers like Holland, Chapman, and Kimbrel. Street is not on that level.

 

 

I agree with you about Joyce, who some may be overrated - including Dipoto. He really is a 4th outfielder, or a starter on a poor club. But he's a useful player to have and gives the Angels an alternative to Cron if he's sucking up the joint, or if Hamilton or Calhoun get hurt. So I don't think the Angels "sold high," but they did "sell equal." A good 4th outfielder is about equal in value to a good middle reliever, and also the Angels have similar and less expensive options in players like Pestano, Morin, and Salas.

 

Street took his game to another level.  I don't expect another 1.37 era but you can't say for sure that he hasn't turned himself into a great closer.  We will see next year if he is on Kimbrel's level.  I don't see any reason why he can't be.

[arch stanton]

We were told before last season started that Jepsen had changed his mechanics and he then went on to have a pretty dominant season in which he owned RH hitters. I don't know why everyone thinks that's not sustainable. I'm not saying he's a lock to be a lockdown, just don't know why we can't acknowledge that he may have turned a corner. It's tough to judge any of the relievers by what happened in September and October since the losses in the rotation really overexposed them at that point.

 

Joyce is just what we needed. A capable LH bat who doesn't command a full time starting position. If Ramos and Santiago are both in the pen from the beginning they fill a huge need from last season and I think give us the opportunity to play matchup in innings 6 and 7 and keep from using Salas in the inherited runner role he clearly couldn't handle.

 

As long as the back end duo remains steady this should be a very strong pen.

Edited January 1, 2015 by arch stanton

[Vegas Halo Fan]

At the start of last season the bullpen took a lot of hits.

 

Frieri was our closer. Amazing that we won 98 games with him filling that role for as long as he did.

[laagamer]

SB Nation has a "stuff to write about after Christmas" problem.

 

/thread 

 

Most intelligent post here. 

Edited January 1, 2015 by laagamer

[AngelsLakersFan]

Street took his game to another level.  I don't expect another 1.37 era but you can't say for sure that he hasn't turned himself into a great closer.  We will see next year if he is on Kimbrel's level.  I don't see any reason why he can't be.

 

That's not really how it works. If he was going to be a consistently elite relief pitcher then he would have been one already.

[AngelsLakersFan]

The problem with using projected WAR for relievers is that so much of relieve WAR is based on usage. Jepson and Grilli threw a lot of innings for us last year, I'm not sure how many of those innings have been properly calculated back into the bullpen.

 

We'll be giving more innings to guys who have shorter track records, which will also make projected WAR hesitant to expected their short term performance to continue over the longer term.

[QuinlansMinion]

I dont get it.  How can our bullpen be a problem?  Last time I checked, we have a dominant set up man and closer.  We have a young 7th inning guy who is already really good.  Plus some other dark horse candidates who have good stuff.  I dont see how the bullpen is a problem.

 

With that said, id still love to get a guy like Aroldis Chapman in here just to solidify it even more.  But we already have reliable guys that can hold leads.  Lets be honest here, the offense is our problem.  We just lost our starting 2nd basemen, a lot of guys played like crap in the 2nd half and in the postseason.  We arent as good offensively as everyone thinks.  And if Pujols continues to decline, Trout will have absolutely no protection in the lineup.

 

We are a one man team offensively.  You cant rely on one guy all the time.  Somebody else whether its Calhoun, Hamilton, or whoever, needs to step in and provide an OPS well over .800.  Not one player in the lineup other than Trout had an OPS over .800 last year.

[Docwaukee]

The problem with using projected WAR for relievers is that so much of relieve WAR is based on usage. Jepson and Grilli threw a lot of innings for us last year, I'm not sure how many of those innings have been properly calculated back into the bullpen.

 

We'll be giving more innings to guys who have shorter track records, which will also make projected WAR hesitant to expected their short term performance to continue over the longer term.

that's a really good point.  On top of that, we have a bunch of options and the better a player performs, the more they will be relied upon and the more WAR they will accumulate.  

 

here are the projections.  

http://www.fangraphs.com/projections.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&type=steamer&team=1&players=0&sort=19,d

 

pretty awful and personally, I don't think they are very helpful.  

[tdawg87]

Those projections are even worse. Steamer is horrible.

[Angel Oracle]

I dont get it. How can our bullpen be a problem? Last time I checked, we have a dominant set up man and closer. We have a young 7th inning guy who is already really good. Plus some other dark horse candidates who have good stuff. I dont see how the bullpen is a problem.

With that said, id still love to get a guy like Aroldis Chapman in here just to solidify it even more. But we already have reliable guys that can hold leads. Lets be honest here, the offense is our problem. We just lost our starting 2nd basemen, a lot of guys played like crap in the 2nd half and in the postseason. We arent as good offensively as everyone thinks. And if Pujols continues to decline, Trout will have absolutely no protection in the lineup.

We are a one man team offensively. You cant rely on one guy all the time. Somebody else whether its Calhoun, Hamilton, or whoever, needs to step in and provide an OPS well over .800. Not one player in the lineup other than Trout had an OPS over .800 last year.

Which is Moncada is important to sign, although likely not truly contributing until 2016. We need to start adding offense to this team, with Freese likely gone after 2015, Kendrick traded, Iannetta being a FA a year from now, Hackilton showing no signs of being a solid contributor, and Pujols no longer being even very good. Edited January 2, 2015 by Angel Oracle