CJ Wilson available for trade...

[shizziejoe]

I definitely like the idea of acquiring Lamb.  He would be a nice addition to our young core.  I'm still also curious with how Cowart rebounds and if he still has a future at 3b for us.  We could use some speed at the top of the line-up as well

[Tyler]

It sounds like the Giants will end up with James Shields.

 

I think the Yankees would be interested in CJ to help fill out that rotation. Wilson for Banuelos would be enough for me.

[beatlesrule]

Why so much C.J hate?  He has the same exact career ERA as Shields and is only one year older.  He also throws left handed and is already under contract for less than Shields will get.  Wilson had a down year but he did pitch really well at times.  I don't understand why people want to replace him so badly with a very similar pitcher that is more expensive.

[tdawg87]

CJ has had one good full season with the Angels thus far, one average one, and one bad one, which was also his most recent. He is also making 19 million over the next two years.

Shields has been the definition of consistent. 8 straight years of 200 innings pitched or more, with all but one year having an ERA+ of at least 105. If he could sign for a 4 year deal, the Angels should be all over it. I don't see him getting more than 4/84.

[beatlesrule]

3.83

3.39

4.51

 

Since when is 4.51 a bad season?  You are acting like he had an era of close to 6 or over 6.  All 3 of those ERA's are pretty darn good.  Sure, it would be nice if he was close to 3.39 every year but people here are exaggerating his numbers.  Shields has a lot more mileage on his arm and would command at least a 4 year deal.  We have Wilson for just 2 more years for WAYYYY cheaper.  I don't understand why people are flipping out. 

[Tyler]

One good year, one great year, and one poor year.

 

Either way, the Angels now have SP depth and at Wilson's price ($$) he becomes expendable. Need to re-allocate that money to fill offensive depth, or save money for next season's star FA class.

[eaterfan]

Shields pitches more innings.

[KevinStockerIsGod]

To a value context...

 

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 2m2 minutes ago

The Los Angeles Dodgers have agreed to a one-year, $10 million deal with left-hander Brett Anderson, with $4m in possible incentives.

 

Brett Anderson, a one time potential ace for the A's, has pitched 35, 44.2, and 43.1 innings pitched the last 3 seasons, and he is getting a $10mil deal up to $14mil w/ incentives.  As a reminder, Anderson is a starter not a reliever. 

[shizziejoe]

That's a lot more for Anderson than I expected.  I thought he would make a nice reclamation project for us but for a lot less than what he got.  Maybe Wilson does have more value than we think.

[tdawg87]

3.83

3.39

4.51

 

Since when is 4.51 a bad season?  You are acting like he had an era of close to 6 or over 6.  All 3 of those ERA's are pretty darn good.  Sure, it would be nice if he was close to 3.39 every year but people here are exaggerating his numbers.  Shields has a lot more mileage on his arm and would command at least a 4 year deal.  We have Wilson for just 2 more years for WAYYYY cheaper.  I don't understand why people are flipping out. 

 

Your biggest problem is you are using raw ERA to support your argument. CJ pitches in a pitcher's park and put up a 4.51 ERA. His ERA+ was well below the league average at 85. Not to mention his BB rate was 4.4/9, the worst it's ever been as a starter. As was his K/BB ratio. Yes, he was bad.

 

He was especially bad if you look at his second half numbers.

 

Also you keep saying we have Wilson for "way cheaper". Do you already know what Shields got for a contact? I'll again say: CJ is making 19 million a year the next two seasons. Shields will be lucky if he gets more than 21 million a year over 4 seasons. Factor in that he is a year younger (and also a better pitcher) and the money issue is pretty much a wash.

[Sherlock31]

To a value context...

 

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 2m2 minutes ago

The Los Angeles Dodgers have agreed to a one-year, $10 million deal with left-hander Brett Anderson, with $4m in possible incentives.

 

Brett Anderson, a one time potential ace for the A's, has pitched 35, 44.2, and 43.1 innings pitched the last 3 seasons, and he is getting a $10mil deal up to $14mil w/ incentives.  As a reminder, Anderson is a starter not a reliever. 

Wow, what a deal...............he had pitched 120 innings in the last 3 years combined......................

 

That's way too much money for an injury prone ...........

[beatlesrule]

How is signing a 33 year old pitcher to a 4 or 5 year deal getting younger?  If we go by recent signings, Shields will get at least 4 years and probably something like 80 million.  I bet he signs for 5 years and 100 million or more. That would mean he is on the club until he is 38 and making 20 million. You also need to factor in how much money the Angels would have to include in any Wilson trade.  Add that to what the cost of Shields would be.  Let's say the Angels have to include 15 million to trade CJ and they sign Shields for 90 million.  It's really for 105 million.  Not worth the upgrade at all.

 

Argue over the ERA stat being meaningless in this case but overall, he had a decent year. You want to play the 2nd half being terrible game?  Start applying it to other players and see how far you get before you realize how unfair it is to single him out.

Edited December 16, 2014 by beatlesrule

[tdawg87]

How is signing a 33 year old pitcher to a 4 or 5 year deal getting younger?  If we go by recent signings, Shields will get at least 4 years and probably something like 80 million.  I bet he signs for 5 years and 100 million or more. That would mean he is on the club until he is 38 and making 20 million. You also need to factor in how much money the Angels would have to include in any Wilson trade.  Add that to what the cost of Shields would be.  Let's say the Angels have to include 15 million to trade CJ and they sign Shields for 90 million.  It's really for 105 million.  Not worth the upgrade at all.

 

Argue over the ERA stat being meaningless in this case but overall, he had a decent year. You want to play the 2nd half being terrible game?  Start applying it to other players and see how far you get before you realize how unfair it is to single him out.

 

Please post an example of someone saying signing Shields would "make the team younger", because I'm having difficulty finding any.

 

Also, I just provided several examples that he did not, in fact, have a decent year. You are using just one single stat. How about the fact that he won 13 games??? That's pretty decent, right?

 

Also I have literally no idea what point you are trying to make with the second part of that post. But for shits and giggles let's just use the two pitchers who are relevant to this discussion:

 

CJ Wilson 2nd half numbers: 4.85 ERA, 1.67 WHIP, .276 BAA, 1.19 K/BB, .741 OPS

 

James Shields 2nd half numbers: 2.62 ERA, 1.06 WHIP, .235 BAA, 4.12 K/BB, .632 OPS

[Inside Pitch]

 

 

Since when is 4.51 a bad season?  You are acting like he had an era of close to 6 or over 6.  All 3 of those ERA's are pretty darn good.  Sure, it would be nice if he was close to 3.39 every year but people here are exaggerating his numbers.  Shields has a lot more mileage on his arm and would command at least a 4 year deal.  We have Wilson for just 2 more years for WAYYYY cheaper.  I don't understand why people are flipping out. 

 

Since the league ERA was 3.82.

 

Wilson is likely better than he showed last year, but people trying to say he wasn't bad last year are guilty of putting lipstick on a pig.   He completely fell apart and was utterly useless for a long stretch of the season.   His Angels career has been underwhelming, one league average season where he posted an even 100 ERA+, one above average season where he posted a 111 ERA+, and one season where he was gawd awful with an ERA+ of 81.

 

Nobody ever thinks of Omar Olivares as having been a great Angels pitcher and yet he posted an ERA+ of 119 as an Angel.   CJ Wilson?  97.   Yep....

[bloodbrother]

After seeing Anderson get $10 million despite never being healthy, I feel a lot better about the Angels chances of dealing CJ while only eating perhaps $8-$12 million

 

This offseason would be awesome if they were able to unload the majority of CJ's deal

[Troll Daddy]

After seeing Anderson get $10 million despite never being healthy, I feel a lot better about the Angels chances of dealing CJ while only eating perhaps $8-$12 million

This offseason would be awesome if they were able to unload the majority of CJ's deal

True ... if they sign a big name pitcher. Bad ... if they don't.