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Kendrick or Freese likely to be traded


HBMike

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Career .309 hitter in the minors with considerable gap power and a keen eye/mature approach. Yeah, I don't think it's a stretch to think Green can hit .280/.340 at the major league level with 30 DB and 10 HR.

Those numbers would be on par with Howie.

it's not a stretch, but he's never done it.  you would probably know more than most of us, but is Green as capable at 3b as he is at 2b?  Because if he is, wouldn't it make more sense to have him replace freese?  Unless of course Howie nets you a pitcher way better than expected.  

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What are Howie's minor league numbers compared to Green's? 

 

Neither Howie nor Green have shown they can hit their minor league numbers in large enough samples to show that they aren't going to hit that. Also, Howie is a vastly superior fielder.

 

I'm not saying for the right offer I don't trade Howie, but neither Green nor Beckham is putting up numbers close to Howie.

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it's not a stretch, but he's never done it. you would probably know more than most of us, but is Green as capable at 3b as he is at 2b? Because if he is, wouldn't it make more sense to have him replace freese? Unless of course Howie nets you a pitcher way better than expected.

The Angels (or more specifically Alfredo) worked with Grant last offseason primarily at 3B and SS. I think the organization intended to use him as a super-sub a la Maicer Izturis.

But then events happened that relegated him to AAA. Kendrick's trade market never developed while Trumbo's did Freese was available for a cost the Angels could meet.

The person I spoke with said it was clear Grant is a shortstop. A couple tweaks and suddenly he was an MLB caliber SS. They were hoping for the same at 2B and 3B but it just wasn't the case. His glove and footwork at 3B were fine but his throws were offline and he was often rushing himself. At 2B they love his skillset but his footwork and instincts aren't there.

So it's pick your poison. Play him at the hot corner where his reactions are lacking but makes up for it in size and glove with the added caveat he needs to work on his throws or play him at 2B where he'll be good someday but you'll need to take your lumps first before he's comfortable and develops an instinct for it.

He's best suited at SS, but we already have one of the best there.

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I like Grant Green but I see his role with the Halos as a valuable utility guy off the bench.......

 

sort of a twist on what I sometimes refer to the Mark McLemore spot on the roster........

 

some may recall McLemore as a super sub with us as well as with the Mariners......he was not a starter but seemed to start about 100 games a year and play in a total of 150-plus in some role.

 

So Green, in may way of thinking, would be a super sub who could play primarily 3B but also 2B and SS (I don't see Aybar missing too many games/ innings -- perhaps Aybar could be spelled in the late innings of day game after a night game in a game where the final few innings are close to meaningless, meaning we're way ahead or way behind in the game).

 

Green can also play some LF (not great - but he did make a pretty good catch out there in a game I was at last year).......he has some pop in his bat and probably hits about .265 in a utility role, he is not a speedster, but has OK speed and seemed like a baseball instinct smart base runner the times he was on base.........

 

I see Green's role as essentially the one they acquired Beckham for at  deadline time this year -- what's Beckham's status? I assumed he was a rental and that he'd been moving for 2015 -- he did OK for us and sort of knocked John McDonald off the post - season roster.........but moving forward I'd stick with Green in this role, Beckham gone and McDonald retired (hopefully to a coaching position within the Angels organization).

 

Look, for 2015 -- not a lot of line up changes on the field -no need to be --  C- Ianetta (will Conger be the back up?) 1B/ DH (Pujols -- he can't play 162 games at 1B any more, I'd say more like 81 to 100); 2B - Howie (no need for a change here, IMO)  SS- Aybar (how's he's not in the mix for the gold glove award, I just can't understand it) 3B -- FREESE?/ GREEN? Someone else? (I continue to see a platoon here and much depends on how Freese looks in ST, if he's off to a slow start at the plate again, that's a problem -- in any case we need someone (Green strong enough D wise to do this? to spell him in the field in the late innings -- I like McDonald in this role -- there has to be someone else in the system that can fill this role, if not Green).

 

OF --  what to do with Hamilton?  We're stuck with him, want to see how he looks in ST.......he didn't look ready to play in the post-season.  I liked the OF we finished the season with and would stick with that (the month that Hamilton was gone).........to me Hamilton becomes a DH - fourth/ fifth OF'er.........except for his large contract status, I'd probably be tempted to DFA the guy....the problem is we have three DH type guys on the roster now -- Pujols, Cron, Hamilton.

 

PITCHING -- this is where we need to concentrate during the off-season.

 

needed -- a serviceable fourth starter who can give us 5 to 6 innings each start.

 

needed (and where to spend money) -- two, perhaps, three, quality set up pen guys (Wade Davis caliber) who can bolter our pen and give us a 6th, 7th, 8th inning bridge to Huston Street (who the Halos have coming back -- a good move to start the off-season activity).

 

this middle inning pen guy(s) is where the Angels need to spend some serious money and perhaps over-pay to get what we need -- one of the three PEN guys we sign could be a swing man who could provide some spot starts.........

 

ROTATION -- Weaver, Shoemaker, CJ Wilson, Santiago(?) and then about mid-June Garrett Richards.

 

we need a serviceable starter and no need to break the bank.

 

I would spend off-season money on middle inning pen set up guys who could be used inter-changeably in the 6th to 8th/9th innings.

 

We could also use a decent bench guy -- (in addition to someone like Grant Green) -- we just let Campana go --I'd like to see a speedster on the team, either an OF'er or a MIF slick glove type who could pinch run and play late inning defense........we need to play more NL style baseball -- that's what got the Royals to the playoffs -- five/six inning starts, solid pen, and then D and late inning speed.......it's a good model -- let's copy it.

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On starting pitching -- sort of forgot about Tyler Skaggs -- not sure if we can count on him at all for 2015.....may be July?

 

as for relief pitching -- I would think going into ST,  Street, Smith and perhaps Morin would be locks.

 

Bedrosian remains with the organization but may need more AA/ AAA time , much depends on his performance in ST.

 

 

all the others -- to the extent they stay here -- are expendable and could be replaced --all of them (we really need to improve here or we've done little to improve) :

 

so Jepsen, Salas, Grilli (he's a F/A and I thought a rental for us and more importantly a way for us in 2014 to add by subtracting Frieri), Pestano, Rasmus, Roth, Thatcher etc.  It wouldn't bother me at all if none of these guys made the 2015 Halos roster......might be unrealistic but here's where we re-make this club for 2015.

 

The one guy who might have to be kept is Wade LeBlanc due to the hole in our rotation........LeBlanc, I guess, could be the spot starter/ long relief guy. -- what's his contract status? He could probably find more playing time (fifth starter) role with another team.

 

Looking at the OF -- we have Calhoun (and check the team record with and without Calhoun in the lead off spot playing LF -- he was pretty valuable to the line up mix for us); Trout and then RF?? Cowgill (more of a fourth OF to may way of thinking); Hamilton should have stayed on the DL during the past post-season -- I don't see him returning to any prior (better) form....we'll see,

 

Efren Navarro could see a lot of playing time in 2015 at 1B and OF -- Grant Green could see some significant playing time at 3B and OF.

 

So we need a serviceable fourth/ fifth starter; several quality middle inning pen guys, a quality fielding OF with an decent bat, perhaps some real speed as well and maybe a new back up/ platoon catcher.

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Career .309 hitter in the minors with considerable gap power and a keen eye/mature approach. Yeah, I don't think it's a stretch to think Green can hit .280/.340 at the major league level with 30 DB and 10 HR.

Those numbers would be on par with Howie.

Scotty, you are one of my favorite posters on here, but I think your vision is completely distorted on this one. Green is a slap hitter with no power whatsoever and no ability to take a walk. He is like a slightly better version of J.B. Shuck, albeit from the right side.

I am not saying he doesn't have a future as a major league player, but I think best case scenario he puts up something like .280/.310/.360.

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Grant Green is 28 years old and hasn't been given a real shot by 2 different teams. While his defense has gotten better, he's still a poor defender unless you're sticking him in LF. 

 

His hit tool is his main carrying trait but he's going to be a sub .400 SLG% guy and doesn't really walk a whole lot. I think you're looking at a .270/.315/.380 type of bat, which isn't too bad if you're using him as a utility guy. I don't see him as a full time starter that you give 500 at bats to, however. 

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You wouldn't lose sleep if we lost Rasmus?

I would. He was outstanding down the stretch

On starting pitching -- sort of forgot about Tyler Skaggs -- not sure if we can count on him at all for 2015.....may be July?

as for relief pitching -- I would think going into ST, Street, Smith and perhaps Morin would be locks.

Bedrosian remains with the organization but may need more AA/ AAA time , much depends on his performance in ST.

all the others -- to the extent they stay here -- are expendable and could be replaced --all of them (we really need to improve here or we've done little to improve) :

so Jepsen, Salas, Grilli (he's a F/A and I thought a rental for us and more importantly a way for us in 2014 to add by subtracting Frieri), Pestano, Rasmus, Roth, Thatcher etc. It wouldn't bother me at all if none of these guys made the 2015 Halos roster......might be unrealistic but here's where we re-make this club for 2015.

The one guy who might have to be kept is Wade LeBlanc due to the hole in our rotation........LeBlanc, I guess, could be the spot starter/ long relief guy. -- what's his contract status? He could probably find more playing time (fifth starter) role with another team.

Looking at the OF -- we have Calhoun (and check the team record with and without Calhoun in the lead off spot playing LF -- he was pretty valuable to the line up mix for us); Trout and then RF?? Cowgill (more of a fourth OF to may way of thinking); Hamilton should have stayed on the DL during the past post-season -- I don't see him returning to any prior (better) form....we'll see,

Efren Navarro could see a lot of playing time in 2015 at 1B and OF -- Grant Green could see some significant playing time at 3B and OF.

So we need a serviceable fourth/ fifth starter; several quality middle inning pen guys, a quality fielding OF with an decent bat, perhaps some real speed as well and maybe a new back up/ platoon catcher.

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I don't understand some people's rush to dump Howie Kendrick every year. Perhaps it is disappointment that he didn't live up to the "potential batting champion" hype, but we are set at second base unless a killer deal comes along. David Freese is a much more replaceable piece.

replaceable=not as much haul in any trade

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Hamilton a 4th/5th outfielder ?

 

Does anybody watch the games here comment.

 

Yeah, I watched the KC Royals - Angels ALDS series.

 

I don't think Hamilton was ready to play then and I have doubts about ST --I also have doubts about his desire to play

 

He was out the last month of the 2014 season and then looked absolutely listless in the post series games.

 

Hamilton also seems to have a very low threshold for pain and seems to have difficulty bouncing back from even the slightest injury.

 

-- and on top of all that -- yeah, I was one of many here who didn't like the Halos signing him to that contract in the first place.

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Rasmus may be the 4th most interesting player on this team right now. Trout is of course 1. 2amd 3 are Richards and Shoe. Can Garrett make a full recovery from that awful knee injury? Can Matt follow up his dominant performance.

That brings us to Rasmus. He said himself, he never lost sight of his dream of being a SP. Injuries forced him into the pen but it's pretty clear when you see his arsenal that he very well could be a mid/front of the rotation SP if it breaks right. Let's not forget, he was a 1st round pick for a reason.

Sure, chances are he's just a middle RP. But what if the success he saw in 3-4 inning increments translated to 6 inning increments?

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Hamilton a 4th/5th outfielder ... does anybody actually watch the games here?

The Hambone hate here is hilarious to say the least.

Given his last two seasons its not much of a stretch, pimp. I have a hard time (like you) forgetting how good the guy used to be. But he was bad last year and really bad this year. Will he get better with age?...

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When I read your posts, sometime I feel like Frank the Tank after taking a tranquilizer dart to the jugular.  

 

You're crazy.  I like you man, but you're crazy.   :)

 

The league is very thin at 3b yet our guy still ended up 16th among qualified leaders.  Several teams don't have a qualified player at the position so if you take all comers, Freese is 20th.  The halos were 21st in WAR as a team at the position.  You wouldn't upgrade hardly anyone, because a weak platoon gave several other teams as much production at a fraction of the cost.  

 

I have a hard time saying that a guy who put up almost 5 WAR last year is largely replaceable more so than a 2 WAR player.  But I am working under the assumption than Green can be as capable at 3b as he can at second.   

 

To me, it's a no brainer unless someone knocks your socks off to get Howie.  If you are trying to shed some payroll, Freese is the guy to go. You don't need Pablo Sandoval to replace him.  To me, Howie is a guy you move at the deadline if you are out of it.   

You guys are quick to insult sometimes without seeing the views of others... and in this case you miss the point... do we have anyone better?  even close?

The point is that the position is thin, we haven't had any legit in house candidates in practically a decade.

who are you going to replace him with, and does it help the team in doing so?

 

you arent going to trade him for an upgrade at 3B.. so if you are going to do it you are forcing the club to sign a FA or go with a weaker option.  How does this help the club?  You cant think youre going to get a quality starter for him but even if it did all it does is weaken us in one area to help in another.. its a  zero sum equation.

Howie we have candidates already on the roster that can replace him.. perhaps not as well, but hes also likely to bring a much better return so the end result makes more sense.

 

Edited by floplag
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I see that Howie's no trade clause for four teams (Rays, Mets, Marlins and Blue Jays) is in the news.  Some chatter about some interest from the Yankees. 

 

Not sure what New York would have that we would want. They aren't looking to trade pitching, and their starting lineup is old and overpaid. We have already hit our quota on those types.

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I doubt they will re-sign him, and I am okay with that, but I really don't see the sense in trading him. So lets say hypothetically that we never had Howie. We got by with unexciting, but capable,  players like Green and Beckham at 2nd base all year and of course the board was full of hate and discontent for our lack of offensive production at 2B...

 

If you found out you could get a 4-5 WAR 2nd baseman on a 1 year contract for $9M would you take it?

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