Serial - Anybody else listening? (SPOILERS)

[Schildog]

I am not sure why... they had broken up.

 

he was in contact with her the evening/morning before the murder:

 

http://serialpodcast.org/maps/timelines-january-13-1999

[Adam]

Anyway, they didn't prove he was guilty. He should be freed. If he did do it, he's been in the joint for about half his life. Not like he would be unpunished

[yk9001]

he was in contact with her the evening/morning before the murder:

 

http://serialpodcast.org/maps/timelines-january-13-1999

 

got it.

[Brandon]

Anyway, they didn't prove he was guilty. He should be freed. If he did do it, he's been in the joint for about half his life. Not like he would be unpunished

 

Speaking of which, I don't think it was mentioned here, but this show opened up the courts looking at the case again and word came the other day they scheduled a new appeals hearing in January

[Sam Sanchez]

Yeah, part of me feels Adnan is innocent but what I always end up coming back to is that if he didn't do it, then who did?

 

 

If not Adnan, it could only be Jay, and the only real motive is Adnan's relationship with Stephanie and potential jealousy stemming from that. But even then, without Adnan's cooperation with that, it seems farfetched that this whole scenario can play out so perfectly in Jay's favor with being left Adnan's car and cell phone to be given the perfect opportunity to frame him. 

 

 

That said, Adnan, based on the evidence, probably should not be in prison right now, especially for life.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Sam Sanchez

[red321]

I tend to agree Sam. While I don't think it's Adnan's lawyer's job to identify who did it, seeing as he's now in jail for the crime realistically unless they can provide a credible story, with evidence, of someone else's guilt it's going to be hard to get any conviction over turned. Doesn't mean he should have been convicted in the first place, but he was so the burden of proof is shifted.

 

Jay is obviously involved, to what degree, don't know...but I'm not sure I see him as acting alone. What motivation would there be? So, if he didn't act alone, who would be the second person...it would have to be Adnan, right? Who else could it be? The timelines are different...maybe they acted together or Jay was significantly more involved...but there's nobody else people are aware of that you can say...yeah, they were involved.

[Taylor]

These parodies are pretty funny.

 

[Schildog]

i assume you meant lame instead of funny.

[Taylor]

Hmm, I thought his impression of Sarah Koenig was spot on. Whatever floats your boat!

[deepdrive]

I've only heard 3 episodes, but I bet I already know what my conclusion is:

 

The vast majority of people can't accept that sometimes you just can't get the bad guy. Combining human incompetence with lack of enough information just makes some crimes unsolvable. Sometimes it's just better to let things go, than put someone in prison for most of their life so that everyone feels good about making someone pay.

[Schildog]

half way through this week's episode... that is a crazy bit of information.

[Adam]

Finished. Necessary episode but not very entertaining. 

 

Nothing to really impact what we already think about his guilt/innocence. 

[Schildog]

concur. it's just really bizarre.

[Brandon]

"whaaaaaaatttt"

[Sam Sanchez]

I found the episode entertaining. Just really fascinating to hear Christina Gutierrez at work and all the stories about her. Her illness, the money, her approach, Adnan's implicit trust in her. Just seems like a weird "character" in this story.

Edited December 4, 2014 by Sam Sanchez

[red321]

I agree with Adam...for the most part not sure it moved the story a long much, but with there being so many questions about the attorney, and the two trials, it was necessary and if you look at the overall big picture of the story I think it helped give more definition to Gutierrez. I will say Gutierrez didn't come off as incompetent as I thought she would based on some of the other snippets they've played previously like the whole stepping out thing. One thing that seems to be fairly consistent is everyone has assumed she blew it. You listen to the podcast and you think, how could any jury in the world not have reasonable doubt, how terrible was the lawyer. And like everything else in the story, I'm not sure it's so cut and dried as that. 

 

 

The information on Jay's lawyer...ok, I'm not a lawyer but what the hell. You would think that's grounds for appeal, especially when you consider just how many times Jay's story changed.

 

It's pretty cool to hear them bring up news "outside" of their podcast, talking about the appeal. I'm not sure I buy the whole asking for a plea deal explanation from Adnan.

 

Sounds like they are diving in to Adnan's mental state next week?

Edited December 5, 2014 by red321

[Brandon]

The Jay lawyer deserved her "whaaaattttt" and is the biggest wtf in this whole story. I would have liked to have gotten Adnan's thoughts on that...since if he is innocent, that means someone like Jay would have done it, or at least been on Adnan's list of suspects.

 

I like she cleared up the appeal thing too, another media dandy.

[Adam]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Adnan, to this point, hasn't really given his take as to why he thinks Jay implicated him.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on the plea deal request, though it is a bit off. I couldn't foresee a scenario in which I would agree to a plea if I were innocent.

I got some accupuncture today and listened to it again. The money stuff with Gutierrez was interesting. This entire story seems like perfectly constructed fiction. Remarkable.

[Brandon]

There are a few things that make me think Adnan may be guilty, on some scale. The plea deal is one.

If you've been through the system or know how the courts work you look for plea deals at all stops whether guilty or not. For someone just in the system, I don't see someone thrown in County as knowing or considering pleas. If you believe the part about him being told about them, that is viable. All criminals do in prison is talk about crime, how they could of got away with it or not caught, and everyone in a pod has an opinion on how one should go about their case...pleas, likely sentencing, outcomes, expectations, etc.

[red321]

As I'm listening to the episode again (I can't be the only one who listens to episodes multiple times) I'm wondering, how much did the mistrial play in to things? It's almost like it gave the prosecution a do over. They obviously learned from their mistakes, Jay's testimony appears to have changed somewhat. As noted in a previous episode, the Nesha call testimony changed or at least it appeared the witness had been coached on what not to say.

 

Oh, and Gutierrez's manner of speaking is reallllllle a....nnnoooooooowing

[Adam]

As I'm listening to the episode again (I can't be the only one who listens to episodes multiple times) I'm wondering, how much did the mistrial play in to things? It's almost like it gave the prosecution a do over. They obviously learned from their mistakes, Jay's testimony appears to have changed somewhat. As noted in a previous episode, the Nesha call testimony changed or at least it appeared the witness had been coached on what not to say.

 

Oh, and Gutierrez's manner of speaking is reallllllle a....nnnoooooooowing

 

The city of Baltimore itself became a character in this episode. I wonder how much more difficult it is for the accused to get a fair shake in an ultra-violent community like that, where it would appear guys are going away with murder convictions on a daily basis. 

[red321]

The city of Baltimore itself became a character in this episode. I wonder how much more difficult it is for the accused to get a fair shake in an ultra-violent community like that, where it would appear guys are going away with murder convictions on a daily basis. 

 

I didn't really make that connection, but I'm wondering if it would be any different in a "non-violent" city. Don't we have a bit of, if they were charged they must be guilty mentality in general?

[Adam]

I didn't really make that connection, but I'm wondering if it would be any different in a "non-violent" city. Don't we have a bit of, if they were charged they must be guilty mentality in general?

 

Particularly if they're a dark skinned male, for sure. 

 

I would speculate that a community with less exposure to daily violence and horror might be more inclined to consider evidences and narratives more closely. I dunno. Quick google search for % of indictments leading to convictions by city came up snake eyes.

[Brandon]

I'm actually getting tired of the dramatic spin. It's gotten to the point where she was talking to jurors and all I can think about is her asking them, like they did the two jurors, why they made the decisions they did.

 

It started out like a good who dun it crime drama, but is getting redundant with sub facts and opinions. I don't think we are going to get anything new either.

 

However, it is interesting as a real world murder/courts/process and the thought processes behind all aspects.

[Adam]

Yeah hopefully they have a good plan in place to draw this to a close on their end. They run the risk of ending the show in no man's land.