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The O's leave Jimenez off the roster


joeywings

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If Dipoto had him on the roster you know damn well he wanted him to start.  I'm guessing they both did.  Figured he would come around by the ALCS but didn't figure the rest of the team would suck donkey balls too.

 

Ended up being a bad decision but understandable at the time.

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Being on the roster doesn't mean Dipoto wanted Scioscia to play him. It just means that he was viewed as a potential asset and it's up to Scioscia to decide on how to best utilize the players at his disposal.

It's not a general manager's job to tell a manager who to play and how to manage.

Nobody told Scioscia to bunt all those times. Nobody told him to start Wilson. Nobody told him to play Hamilton every game.

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Every single player on the postseason roster was viewed as a potential asset. That does not mean that Dipoto told Scioscia who to play, who to start, etc. They both decided who should be on the roster, that's it. The rest was up to Scioscia to decide on who should play and how he should best utilize the players at his disposal. He's the manager and that's his JOB.

Do you guys think Dipoto and Scioscia agree on everything, anyway? Of course not. And when it comes to managerial decisions Scioscia's voice is the loudest...for obvious reasons.

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Right. So Dipoto tells Scioscia what to do and who to play. Scioscia agrees. Right.

Yeah, no.

Common sense will tell you that a manager decides who should play and who shouldn't. That's what a manager does. Just like common sense will tell you that all those in-game decisions had nothing to do with Dipoto and everything to do with Scioscia. Again, that's his job.

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People who think alike won't always agree on everything. Now picture Scioscia and Dipoto.

Managerial decisions are on Scioscia. His voice is the loudest because he is the manager. If Scioscia wanted to start Wilson and Dipoto tried to convince him that that wasn't a good idea, who gets their way? Dipoto or Scioscia? Common sense will tell you that the manager does. After all, he is the manager, not Dipoto.

There is no way though that a SABR-minded GM would advocate starting Wilson - especially after what we've seen these last 4 months. Dipoto ain't that dumb

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What if they didn't? What if only Scioscia did?

Nobody here really knows what they truly discussed or what happened behind closed doors... but common sense will tell you that no matter what happens, the manager's voice is the loudest when it comes to managerial decisions. The manager decides who plays and who doesn't. That's what a manager does.

Scioscia isn't some rookie manager, anyway. He's well established and you can be certain that he would not let some newbie GM dictate how things should be done on the managerial level

Edited by Angels
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I think Dipoto like Wilson more than Scioscia does.

And the manager decides who to play in the regular season because you can't tailor the roster so specifically for a small sample of games. In the playoffs, you can be pretty sure that Scioscia and Dipoto agreed on who would be on the roster and who would play.

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There is no way though that a SABR-minded GM would advocate starting Wilson - especially after what we've seen these last 4 months. Dipoto ain't that dumb

 

This line ...  again....

 

Jerry Dipoto uses stats -- as such he is impervious to dunderheaded thinking..   He never traded for Tommy Hanson,, he never signed Joe Blanton, he never signed Jason Isringhausen, he never signed Latroy Hawkins and sabr principles had nothing to do with any of those moves.   None of those moves were a direct result of his decision making and even if they were it was MS fault for playing them because Jerry would have been too smart to play any of the guys he signed.

 

Also, Billy Beane, crown prince of statistical analysis has NEVER tried to tell a manager who to play because he is too smart to do that and its not in his job description.   

 

I think Dipoto like Wilson more than Scioscia does.

And the manager decides who to play in the regular season because you can't tailor the roster so specifically for a small sample of games. In the playoffs, you can be pretty sure that Scioscia and Dipoto agreed on who would be on the roster and who would play.

 

Nope....   No way on Earth this can be true.   Mike Scioscia will not be denied, he sits in his office with his Beats by Dre headphones blasting every version of Frank Sinatra's "My Way" and does whatever the hell he wants..  Why?  Because that seems totally logical and it's the only conclusion any sabr savvy person could ever come to.

 

You sports beat guys with access to the clubhouse and players and a feel for what's going can be so silly.  Perhaps you should pick up a copy of Bill James Historical Abstract and learn something.  Geesh.

Edited by Inside Pitch
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You have zero knowledge of how it works. Once again you are stating your opinion as a fact. I have zero doubt that the parameters of Josh's role on the roster were discussed between the two. It's my opinion based on common sense.

I really doubt Dipoto put Josh on the roster thinking that Sosh might use him as a pinch hitter or something.

 

Josh would not have been on the roster if they didn't think he was ready to start and play.

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People who think alike won't always agree on everything. Now picture Scioscia and Dipoto.

Managerial decisions are on Scioscia. His voice is the loudest because he is the manager. If Scioscia wanted to start Wilson and Dipoto tried to convince him that that wasn't a good idea, who gets their way? Dipoto or Scioscia? Common sense will tell you that the manager does. After all, he is the manager, not Dipoto.

There is no way though that a SABR-minded GM would advocate starting Wilson - especially after what we've seen these last 4 months. Dipoto ain't that dumb

Right, the GM would have much rather have started Rasmus and gone with a bullpen game instead  or do you think he would have gone with Santiago?

 

Fact;  2 of last 3 starts by Wilson were good starts.  Fact:  Santiago is an inconsistent as  Wilson.  Fact:  The idea of a bullpen game is a desperate gamble considering you wouldn't want to burn out your pen unless absolutely necessary.

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The snide idiocy aside, who the F ever said that Dipoto was infallible? Of course he isn't. He has made a few questionable trades. Some of his signings were busts. He is far from infallible.

However, Wilson was literally one of the absolute worst pitchers in baseball from around the end of May all the way to the end of the season. There was absolutely no reason for him to start over Rasmus or Santiago. None. If Dipoto truly advocated or agreed with the decision to start Wilson then he is not who I thought he was.

I still think that was a Scioscia decision.

Besides, does anyone really believe that Dipoto and Scioscia agree with everything? Who gets their way in the event of a disagreement (managerial decision)? Scioscia.

Edited by Angels
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